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Subrogation

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BettyAnn

Junior Member
Hi all, I'm new here, and I'm in Alabama.

I was recently in a small "fender bender," and thought I was covered by my mother's insurance. Unfortunately, she hadn't paid the month before, and I therefore did not have insurance.

I was backing out of a parking space when my car collided with another girl's. She was talking on her cell phone and speeding (which is why I think I didn't see her, she was coming around a corner), and even admitted that she saw me backing out but thought she had the "right of way" and decided to just honk and keep going. After that, she called me repeatedly to harrass me about paying for her damages, to the point that I told her if she called again I would file harrassment charges. She wouldn't give me her insurance information or claim number (I had to look up her info on the police report, and got the claim number from the company). She also REFUSED to show me any kind of estimate... I asked several times, and at one point she simply said that it was around $600 (but didn't show me anything).

She went and had her car fixed in Texas, and said that her damages were $1300, plus another $700 for a rental car, and she wanted me to pay that! I told her I would only do things through the insurance company, but I have NEVER seen an estimate OR a receipt for anything. Furthermore, the damage to my car was worse than hers (and my car is significantly more expensive), so I went to the shop to get an estimate to compare. It came to around $250, but I asked them to hypothetically say they were going to have to replace EVERYTHING (completely unneccessary things, but I wanted to compare) and it came to around $900 (MAXIMUM). I feel certain that she got tons of other things fixed, but I don't know since I haven't seen anything. She's been in SEVERAL other accidents, and I know she had a lot of other damage to her car, so I don't know if she attempted to have that fixed as well or what's going on.

Now I haven't seen ANYTHING, not even a bill from the insurance company, and I've had a subrogation company AND collection agency call me!

What I really want to know is if it is legal for her to get things fixed without even showing me an estimate. I also don't think the accident is entirely my fault, but how can I prove that?

She says that she has a lot of witnesses who say I was "flying out" of the parking space, and she says that my radio was "so loud they could hear it," although my radio wasn't loud at all at the time. Furthermore, she left the scene (we filed a police report the NEXT day) because she was VERY late to a concert she was playing in (since I go to school with her, I told her it was ok because music is way more important, and I didn't think she'd be evil about the whole thing). The thing is, I stayed there for about fifteen minutes afterwards because it was my first accident and I was really shaken up, and there was NO ONE ELSE AROUND. So I think she might just be having other friends say they saw it (this was in a music school parking lot).

What do I do now? I think the damages she stated are WAY over-inflated, and seriously, who spends $700 on a rental car?! I just want to know if it's legal at all for her to do this in another state, and without ever showing me an estimate of any kind.

Thanks!
 


seniorjudge

Senior Member
BettyAnn said:
Hi all, I'm new here, and I'm in Alabama.

I was recently in a small "fender bender," and thought I was covered by my mother's insurance. Unfortunately, she hadn't paid the month before, and I therefore did not have insurance.

I was backing out of a parking space when my car collided with another girl's. She was talking on her cell phone and speeding (which is why I think I didn't see her, she was coming around a corner), and even admitted that she saw me backing out but thought she had the "right of way" and decided to just honk and keep going. After that, she called me repeatedly to harrass me about paying for her damages, to the point that I told her if she called again I would file harrassment charges. She wouldn't give me her insurance information or claim number (I had to look up her info on the police report, and got the claim number from the company). She also REFUSED to show me any kind of estimate... I asked several times, and at one point she simply said that it was around $600 (but didn't show me anything).

She went and had her car fixed in Texas, and said that her damages were $1300, plus another $700 for a rental car, and she wanted me to pay that! I told her I would only do things through the insurance company, but I have NEVER seen an estimate OR a receipt for anything. Furthermore, the damage to my car was worse than hers (and my car is significantly more expensive), so I went to the shop to get an estimate to compare. It came to around $250, but I asked them to hypothetically say they were going to have to replace EVERYTHING (completely unneccessary things, but I wanted to compare) and it came to around $900 (MAXIMUM). I feel certain that she got tons of other things fixed, but I don't know since I haven't seen anything. She's been in SEVERAL other accidents, and I know she had a lot of other damage to her car, so I don't know if she attempted to have that fixed as well or what's going on.

Now I haven't seen ANYTHING, not even a bill from the insurance company, and I've had a subrogation company AND collection agency call me!

What I really want to know is if it is legal for her to get things fixed without even showing me an estimate. Yes. I also don't think the accident is entirely my fault, but how can I prove that? You can't ... based solely on your facts, you are 100% guilty.

She says that she has a lot of witnesses who say I was "flying out" of the parking space, and she says that my radio was "so loud they could hear it," although my radio wasn't loud at all at the time. Furthermore, she left the scene (we filed a police report the NEXT day Why did you wait so late? ) because she was VERY late to a concert she was playing in (since I go to school with her, I told her it was ok because music is way more important, and I didn't think she'd be evil about the whole thing). The thing is, I stayed there for about fifteen minutes afterwards because it was my first accident and I was really shaken up, and there was NO ONE ELSE AROUND. So I think she might just be having other friends say they saw it (this was in a music school parking lot).

What do I do now? I think the damages she stated are WAY over-inflated, and seriously, who spends $700 on a rental car?! I just want to know if it's legal at all for her to do this in another state, and without ever showing me an estimate of any kind.

Thanks!

I wouldn't give her anything till she showed you some documentation.

You have to remember that if she wanted to push it, you would probably lose your driver's license.
 

BettyAnn

Junior Member
seniorjudge said:
I wouldn't give her anything till she showed you some documentation.

You have to remember that if she wanted to push it, you would probably lose your driver's license.
So what do I do about the subrogation company calling me AND the collection company calling me? Why has this been given to TWO different companies? Why is she not legally required to have an estimate? Or get it fixed in this state?

What do I do if she DID have things fixed on her car that were not caused by me? What if she had unrelated things fixed? What if she kept the rental car for longer than was necessary? If the charges ARE way too much, is there anything I can do?

I also don't think I am 100% guilty like you seem to think I am. In several other ALMOST IDENTICAL cases I've read about, both parties were determined to be guilty. You need to remember that this girl was speeding around a corner (I was in a corner spot) and was on her cell phone. She even admitted that she saw me and knew I didn't see her, but just decided to honk and keep going. Except that she didn't honk (even though she told the police officer she did). So she knew the accident could happen, but didn't take action to avoid it. I was also actually less than a foot out of the space when our cars hit (I didn't move my car at all afterwards, although she backed up), so she could have swerved to avoid it, but didn't.

You also asked why we waited until the next day... we are both music students in a University, and she was playing in a concert in which she had an important part. She was already late (which I think is why she was speeding, the concert started in about ten minutes), and would not have been able to play if she was late. She thought it was more important to play in the concert (and I did, too, because I didn't think it would turn into this big of a problem). The university police department was already closed, so we had to wait until the next day to file the report.

As for losing of licenses, it is my understanding from reading the Alabama Code that the first offense is a fine of NO MORE THAN $500, and subsequent offenses for driving without insurance result in a fine of NO MORE THAN $1000 OR suspension of the driver's license. The license would not be lost for a first offense.
 

moburkes

Senior Member
You wanted her to go through her insurance company. That is not required, since she was not at fault. Generally, the person backing out of the space is considered at fault. She is required to provide documentation of the repairs that she is asking you to pay. Her calling and asking you to pay is not harrassment. However, you are not required to pay both her AND the collections company. Apparently, she did eventually go through her insurance carrier and only paid the deductible. Have you EVER, IN WRITING, asked either the subrogation company or the collections company for an itemized description of the bills? That is the only way to protect your rights. Yes, its legal for her to repair her vehicle without showing you an estimate. She cannot ask you to pay for damages without showing you a breakdown of the expenses.

Did you ever get insurance?
 

BettyAnn

Junior Member
moburkes said:
You wanted her to go through her insurance company. That is not required, since she was not at fault. Generally, the person backing out of the space is considered at fault. She is required to provide documentation of the repairs that she is asking you to pay. Her calling and asking you to pay is not harrassment. However, you are not required to pay both her AND the collections company. Apparently, she did eventually go through her insurance carrier and only paid the deductible. Have you EVER, IN WRITING, asked either the subrogation company or the collections company for an itemized description of the bills? That is the only way to protect your rights. Yes, its legal for her to repair her vehicle without showing you an estimate. She cannot ask you to pay for damages without showing you a breakdown of the expenses.

Did you ever get insurance?
Thanks for the reply... the harrassment part wasn't so much about paying for anything as it was about her calling me about 15-20 times each day and threatening me, leaving threatening messages on my voice mail, etc.

I have asked her in writing several times (through email) to give me a list or an estimate. She seems to be flat-out refusing to do so, just asking for money without showing me anything. I told her that I would NOT pay her, and I would ONLY pay her insurance company, period. The subrogation and collections companies just started calling me yesterday, but I got their messages too late to call them back (they were closed when I tried). They have NEVER sent me anything in the mail.

What happens if the repairs she got were unnecessary? Do I still have to pay if she had things fixed that were NOT caused by the accident (the accident report clearly states what was damages). For example, if she got like both of her headlights repaired and they were NOT part of the damage, would I still have to pay for that?

And yes, I got insurance ONLY under my name the following day. Like I said, I had NO IDEA that I didn't have insurance; I thought that I was covered under my mother's, but she had just decided not to pay like the month before, and now I'm screwed.
 

moburkes

Senior Member
You are only responsible to pay for the damage that you caused. You can simply speak to her insurance company.
 

weenor

Senior Member
BettyAnn said:
So what do I do about the subrogation company calling me AND the collection company calling me? Why has this been given to TWO different companies? Why is she not legally required to have an estimate? Or get it fixed in this state?

What do I do if she DID have things fixed on her car that were not caused by me? What if she had unrelated things fixed? What if she kept the rental car for longer than was necessary? If the charges ARE way too much, is there anything I can do?

I also don't think I am 100% guilty like you seem to think I am. In several other ALMOST IDENTICAL cases I've read about, both parties were determined to be guilty. You need to remember that this girl was speeding around a corner (I was in a corner spot) and was on her cell phone. She even admitted that she saw me and knew I didn't see her, but just decided to honk and keep going. Except that she didn't honk (even though she told the police officer she did). So she knew the accident could happen, but didn't take action to avoid it. I was also actually less than a foot out of the space when our cars hit (I didn't move my car at all afterwards, although she backed up), so she could have swerved to avoid it, but didn't.

You also asked why we waited until the next day... we are both music students in a University, and she was playing in a concert in which she had an important part. She was already late (which I think is why she was speeding, the concert started in about ten minutes), and would not have been able to play if she was late. She thought it was more important to play in the concert (and I did, too, because I didn't think it would turn into this big of a problem). The university police department was already closed, so we had to wait until the next day to file the report.

As for losing of licenses, it is my understanding from reading the Alabama Code that the first offense is a fine of NO MORE THAN $500, and subsequent offenses for driving without insurance result in a fine of NO MORE THAN $1000 OR suspension of the driver's license. The license would not be lost for a first offense.
The statute to which you are referring only applies if you are stopped and cannot provide proof of insurance. Your license WILL be suspended if you do not pay because YOU caused an accident and did not have insurance. That is Alabama law.
 

BettyAnn

Junior Member
weenor said:
The statute to which you are referring only applies if you are stopped and cannot provide proof of insurance. Your license WILL be suspended if you do not pay because YOU caused an accident and did not have insurance. That is Alabama law.
Excuse me, but I did not EVER say I wasn't going to pay. I just won't pay for things that weren't caused by the accident. I'm a little offended that you seem to think I'm so irresponsible that I won't pay.
 

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