Seizure Dispute and Drug Trafficing Charges

State: Washington (Not D.C.)

My brother was recently charged with dealing marijuana and his car was seized as a result. We can easily prove that it was paid for by legally earned money (he has a job) and have submitted the paperwork required to obtain a court date. Today, I just recieved a reply and a date: December. Now, what I need to know, is if I can somehow expediate the process of getting the car back. Perhaps get a court date sooner? What about the right to a speedy trial?

Second question, if we cannot get a closer court date, how much can he expect to pay for towing and storage between Aug 4th (seizure date) and Dec 19th (court date). If there's any way to get an estimate, please, let me know.

The final question, I want to know if anything is out of the ordinary in this particular case. As far as I know, someone told on my brother to avoid their own persecution. He lived with me in my apartment. Because of this, both of us were picked up at work on Aug 4th, after they raided the apartment. Neither of us were arrested, just detained. When picked up, we were both cuffed, stuck in the back of a squad car, not read our rights, nor told why this was happening. We were taken (with both of our cars) to the police hq where we were to be questioned. We were both finally read our rights while there, though no arrest was ever made. I just wanted to know if we would be able to fight this based on any info provided here.

Thanks for your time.

ryeguy146 said:

State: Washington (Not D.C.)

My brother was recently charged with dealing marijuana and his car was seized as a result. We can easily prove that it was paid for by legally earned money (he has a job) and have submitted the paperwork required to obtain a court date. Today, I just recieved a reply and a date: December. Now, what I need to know, is if I can somehow expediate the process of getting the car back. Perhaps get a court date sooner? What about the right to a speedy trial?

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What makes you think you'll get the car back. It doesn't have to be PURCHASED with proceeds from the illegal business. All that is required is that it is used to support the illegal business.

Second question, if we cannot get a closer court date, how much can he expect to pay for towing and storage between Aug 4th (seizure date) and Dec 19th (court date). If there's any way to get an estimate, please, let me know.

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Ask the tow yard.

The final question, I want to know if anything is out of the ordinary in this particular case. As far as I know, someone told on my brother to avoid their own persecution. He lived with me in my apartment. Because of this, both of us were picked up at work on Aug 4th, after they raided the apartment. Neither of us were arrested, just detained. When picked up, we were both cuffed, stuck in the back of a squad car, not read our rights, nor told why this was happening. We were taken (with both of our cars) to the police hq where we were to be questioned. We were both finally read our rights while there, though no arrest was ever made. I just wanted to know if we would be able to fight this based on any info provided here.

Thanks for your time.

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nothing illegal or unethical about any of that. You were not required to be read your rights until such time as you were interrogated.

ryeguy146 said:

My brother was recently charged with dealing marijuana and his car was seized as a result. We can easily prove that it was paid for by legally earned money (he has a job) and have submitted the paperwork required to obtain a court date. Today, I just recieved a reply and a date: December. Now, what I need to know, is if I can somehow expediate the process of getting the car back. Perhaps get a court date sooner? What about the right to a speedy trial?

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Nope. And how he paid for the car is NOT relevant. The fact that the vehicle was 'used in the commission' of the crime (presumably) is why it was subject to seizure. Your claim of 'honest proceeds' has nothing to do with it.

Second question, if we cannot get a closer court date, how much can he expect to pay for towing and storage between Aug 4th (seizure date) and Dec 19th (court date). If there's any way to get an estimate, please, let me know.

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Somethink less than a quadzillion dollars!!! Hell, ask the impound yard!!!

The final question, I want to know if anything is out of the ordinary in this particular case. As far as I know, someone told on my brother to avoid their own persecution. He lived with me in my apartment. Because of this, both of us were picked up at work on Aug 4th, after they raided the apartment. Neither of us were arrested, just detained. When picked up, we were both cuffed, stuck in the back of a squad car, not read our rights, nor told why this was happening. We were taken (with both of our cars) to the police hq where we were to be questioned. We were both finally read our rights while there, though no arrest was ever made. I just wanted to know if we would be able to fight this based on any info provided here.

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Based on your post, nope.

I have to agree with the forfeiture answers. Look up the laws regarding seizure and find what you need to prove in order to get it back.

Also, you were arrested. Unless they made it *very* clear you didn't *have* to go with them to the station--you were arrested. If they did not have probable cause you may have a case. You did not provide enough information to see if there was PC or not.

Okay, well hell, I was told by the cops that we just had to prove that the car wasn't paid for by that money. Any ideas for fighting for it? The car was leased through my parents by my brother and isn't yet paid off, any way that will change things? I doubt it, but I'd really like for my brother to be able to get his car back. Also, where can I find the laws specific to seizure disputes in drug related cases for the state of Washington. I'd like to read up and become familiar with them so that I can plan this out.

Also, I know we were not arrested because I asked them specifically if I was arrested several times throughout the day, each time I was answered "no." They mentioned that I was being detained pending arrest.

Thanks for the quick answers guys.

For purposes of Miranda, you were arrested. Once they transported you away your detention ceased to be a simple detention. However, as far as state law is concerned regarding a criminal record, you do not appear to have been arrested.

One can be arrested and then released without ever being booked. There is a specific process for this in some states (like mine), but I do not know whether WA articulates this in their codes or not.

In any event, the owner of the car will likely have to produce some form of income and expenses statement to show how much he has earned and what he spent on the car and when. He can start with his income tax form.

- Carl

I'm not going to research the seizure laws in Washington, but I don't know if they can seize more than your brother has. If it is a true lease, written up and everything legal-like, the owner has rights as well.

You were arrested. I don't care if they told you you were detained--you were arrested. Constitutionally, there are two levels of interference with your freedom, arrest and detention. An arrest requires probable cause and a detention requires reasonable suspicion. If a detention, they have the right to do a reasonable investigation. From the facts listed, you were arrested.

See:
United States v. Ramos-Zaragosa (9th cir. 1975) 516 F2d 141
New York v. Quarles (1984) 467 U.S. 649
And, many others depending on the specific facts.

They can claim you were not arrested, but there are so many indicators that you were, they have some 'splaining to do. To assert the violation, you need to get an attorney. The only thing in their favor is that you repeatedly asked if you were arrested and they said no. Even then, I'd bet money a court would find you were arrested.

But, even if he was arrested (as it appears he was), pursuing any legal action without damage might well be throwing money into a hole in the ground (or a lawyer's pocket). Since they were Mirandized when they were taken in, Miranda would not apparently be an issue.

Chances are that they had probable cause to make the arrest depending on what was found in the searches conducted. And I imagine WA has a procedure akin to CA's PC 849(b) that allows for a release after arrest where the arrest will be considered a detention only. In that case, the officer(s) could honestly say afterwards that the suspect(s)was not arresyed and only detained.

- Carl

If they were arrested without probable cause in violation of the 4th amendment, anything that would not otherwise have been found (including the statement, Miranda has to do with the 5th amendment) would be inadmissible as fruit of the poisonous tree.

I agree with you they probably had probable cause to make the original arrest. I think most cops with enough experience to be involved with a search warrant are not stupid enough to arrest and question a person without probable cause. However, there is nothing in the OP's posts to indicate that probable cause.

The statute quoted has nothing to do with determining the constitutional issue of arrest/detention. A person who is brought to a station, booked and jailed for hours and then released could fall under the statute and be considered detained if never charged. That does not mean they were not arrested for 4th amendment considerations.

Hence the reason that the terms are rather fluid and need to be put into context. It was an arrest with regards to Miranda and probable cause was, of course necessary ... but it was not an arrest for purposes of having to report it as an arrest to the state or to potential government employers (at least if this had occurred in CA ... not sure of CA law on the matter).

I, too, believe they found something on the warrant to justify the arrest ... either that or the officers involved were complete dunderheads and walking lawsuits waiting to happen.

- Carl

I was curious, the cops offered him the ability to bargin. He has decided not to take it, but I was curious for personal reasons, how does this usually work?

In general, they might give him a chance to avoid the penalties by feeding them information or setting up some dealers he knows. In exchange they might offer to put in a good word to the DA or not file some charges.

It really depends on the policies an dpractices where you are ... and state law.

- Carl