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Speeding 21 miles over limit in residential zone

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mmm159

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? DC

I am a resident of DC and got my first speeding ticket in Fairfax County, VA. Tomorrow is my court date. I understand that the officer gave me a break by writing a speeding ticket instead of a misdemeanor for reckless driving, which is speeding over 20 miles above the posted speed limit. I would like to contest the charge, because I am concerned with the points. I honestly don't know how fast I was going, because I was lost looking for the interstate when he stopped me. He had just stopped another driver just before me. I did mention to him that I was lost. The officer wrote radar on the ticket. What is the best strategy to avoid points assessed on my DC license? Should I plea not guilty and ask for the callibration sheet?
 


seniorjudge

Senior Member
Q: I would like to contest the charge, because I am concerned with the points.


A: You cannot. Reason: " I honestly don't know how fast I was going, because I was lost looking for the interstate when he stopped me." (By the way: That is a really bad story; don't use it.)



Standard answer

Here are some hints on appearing in court:

Dress professionally in clean clothes.

Do not wear message shirts.

Don't chew gum, smoke, or eat. (Smokers...pot or tobacco...literally stink. Remember that before you head for court.)

Bathe and wash your hair.

Do not bring small children or your friends.

Go to court beforehand some day before you actually have to go to watch how things go.

Speak politely and deferentially. If you argue or dispute something, do it professionally and without emotion.

Ask the court clerk who you talk to about a diversion (meaning you want to plead to a different, lesser charge), if applicable in your situation. Ask about traffic school and that the ticket not go on your record, if applicable. Ask also about getting a hardship driving permit, if applicable. Ask about drug court, if applicable.

From marbol:

“Judge...

You forgot the one thing that I've seen that seems to frizz up most judges these days:

If you have a cell phone, make DAMN SURE that it doesn't make ANY noise in the courtroom. This means when you are talking to the judge AND when you are simply sitting in the court room.

If you have a ‘vibrate’ position on your cell phone, MAKE sure the judge DOESN'T EVEN HEAR IT VIBRATE!

Turn it off or put it in silent mode where it flashes a LED if it rings. AND DON'T even DREAM about answering it if it rings.”

(Better yet, don’t carry your cell phone into the courtroom.)”


Here are six stories that criminal court judges hear the most (and I suggest you do not use them or variations of them):

1. I’ve been saved! (This is not religion specific; folks from all kinds of religious backgrounds use this one.)

2. My girlfriend/mother/sister/daughter/wife/ex-wife/niece/grandma/grand-daughter is pregnant/sick/dying/dead/crippled/crazy and needs my help.

3. I’ve got a job/military posting in [name a place five hundred miles away].

4. This is the first time I ever did this. (This conflicts with number 5 below, but that hasn’t stopped some defendants from using both.)

5. You’ve got the wrong guy. (A variation of this one is the phantom defendant story: “It wasn’t me driving, it was a hitchhiker I picked up. He wrecked the car, drug me behind the wheel then took off.” Or, another variation: “I was forced into it by a bad guy!”)

6. I was influenced by a bad crowd.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=854687#post854687

Public defender’s advice

http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/70300494.html


Other people may give you other advice; stand by.
 

mmm159

Junior Member
Pleading

So because I told the officer that I was lost, I can't plead not guilty? What about the radar's callibration?
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Q: So because I told the officer that I was lost, I can't plead not guilty?

A: No, I never said anything faintly resembling that. But you said you had no idea how fast you were going so that means you could have been guilty.


Q: What about the radar's callibration?

A: What about it?



Read my answer again; especially this part:

Ask the court clerk who you talk to about a diversion (meaning you want to plead to a different, lesser charge), if applicable in your situation. Ask about traffic school and that the ticket not go on your record, if applicable. Ask also about getting a hardship driving permit, if applicable. Ask about drug court, if applicable.
 

mmm159

Junior Member
Yes, I could have been guilty or not guilty.

Do I have to enter a particular plea in order to ask for the radar's callibration?
 

JETX

Senior Member
mmm159 said:
What is the best strategy to avoid points assessed on my DC license?
The best strategy is to make sure you are not breaking the law.

Should I plea not guilty and ask for the callibration sheet?
You can certainly try that and see if it flys in that court. And if it does, you will get another opportunity to return to court in a few weeks for your hearing.
 

cepe10

Member
mmm159 said:
So because I told the officer that I was lost, I can't plead not guilty? What about the radar's callibration?
That's not correct you can contest the evidence against you and the foundation of that evidence - namely if the lEO has at the court a certified calibration record of the tuning forks he used (if they exist and were every used), they match up to the swerial number of the guin he used etc.etc. _it may even be the case that the speed limit doesn't have a speed study to back it up as well...
 
mmm159 said:
What is the name of your state? DC
I am a resident of DC and got my first speeding ticket in Fairfax County, VA. Tomorrow is my court date. I understand that the officer gave me a break by writing a speeding ticket instead of a misdemeanor for reckless driving, which is speeding over 20 miles above the posted speed limit. I would like to contest the charge, because I am concerned with the points. I honestly don't know how fast I was going, because I was lost looking for the interstate when he stopped me. He had just stopped another driver just before me. I did mention to him that I was lost. The officer wrote radar on the ticket. What is the best strategy to avoid points assessed on my DC license? Should I plea not guilty and ask for the callibration sheet?
The first thing you should have done was obtain a copy of your DC Drivers license report assuming it is clean; judges like to see that they're not dealing with a habitual offender.

The second thing is to understand that you are probably guilty as charged. Therefore, at your hearing you are not attempting to 'get out of the ticket' but you are attempting to work with the court to reduce the 20 mph over the limit to something more manageable on your record. Is there an amount of mph over the speed in DC where there are not points with a speeding ticket? Or, are points assessed to a speeding conviction regardless of the speed? You need to know so if no points are assed at 5 mph over the limit, that then is your target goal. You have to explain to the judge why you_re requesting that reduction.

A little quid pro quo is required. You have to be willing to give something to get something in order for the judge to reduce your speed on the ticket. What can you offer in return?

If you've never been to a defensive driving school the judge may agree to lower your speed if you agree to take an 8-hour driver's course online.

So tomorrow, go to your hearing and plead no contest. The judge will normally ask you to make a statement regarding your charges. Tell him your story if you want to, but tell him you value your driver's license and you would appreciate anything the court could do in order to avoid points on your record. Offer your driving record (if you have it) as proof you have a good record and that you are willing to take a defensive driving course or anything the court might prescribe.

Then let the chips fall where they may. Let us know what happens. Good luck!

KTL
 
Last edited:

justalayman

Senior Member
Maybe just a silly question but did the officer right your true speed on the ticket (you know, the 21+ mph over the posted limit?)

If he did write the actual speed on your ticket and merely cited you for the lesser charge, you might want to rethink fighting the current charge.
 

mmm159

Junior Member
Dear kNOwtheLAW,

Thanks for your response.

I did obtain my DC 5 year Driver Record and I had one ticket in 2003 for passing a stop sign in DC. So, it's not a 100% clean and I don't know if it is a good idea to bring that up, although I do not have any speeding tickets.

Regarding points in DC... 21 miles over the limit is 5 points, 11-15 miles over is 3 points and anything less than 11 seems to fall under "commit any moving violation that does not contribute to an accident and it is not listed below" is 2 to 3 points. If you accumulate over 10 points the license is suspended for 90 days. So apparently, there is no amount of mph over the speed limit in DC where there are no points with a speeding ticket. Therefore, taking the above in consideration, what kind of reduction should I have as a target?

I've never been to a defensive driving school and I am more than willing to do so, so that the judge may agree to lower my speed or not give me any points, but I called the Fairfax county court and was told that traffic school is not an option in Fairfax. I guess it can't hurt to ask the judge anyway, right?

Finally, why do you suggest to plea no contest? Do you suggest that I ask about the radar's callibration? I am required to enter a particular plea if I ask about the callibration?

I thank you very much for your previous response and look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thanks! mmm159
 

mmm159

Junior Member
Response to justalayman

The charge reads: speed 46/25 mph zone, radar, under law section 46.2-878.2, speeding in a residential district.
 
mmm159 said:
I did obtain my DC 5 year Driver Record and I had one ticket in 2003 for passing a stop sign in DC. So, it's not a 100% clean and I don't know if it is a good idea to bring that up, although I do not have any speeding tickets.
I'd have it ready, I would not volunteer it. If the judge asks if you have been arrested for any other traffic citations tell him about the stop sign ticket and offer the driver's record report supporting your statement.

mmm159 said:
Regarding points in DC... 21 miles over the limit is 5 points, 11-15 miles over is 3 points and anything less than 11 seems to fall under "commit any moving violation that does not contribute to an accident and it is not listed below" is 2 to 3 points. If you accumulate over 10 points the license is suspended for 90 days. So apparently, there is no amount of mph over the speed limit in DC where there are no points with a speeding ticket. Therefore, taking the above in consideration, what kind of reduction should I have as a target?
I would then manage the damage by either asking for a reduction in speed to minimize the number of points (10 mph over), or if you have a compassionate judge ask if the LEO would agree to reissue a citation for a non-moving violation -- no points. It never hurts to ask.

mmm159 said:
I've never been to a defensive driving school and I am more than willing to do so, so that the judge may agree to lower my speed or not give me any points, but I called the Fairfax county court and was told that traffic school is not an option in Fairfax. I guess it can't hurt to ask the judge anyway, right?
Judge's have discretion to do things the Clerk of Courts office may not be able to do. Other judges in VA use the defensive driving schools so this judge may also. It never hurts to ask, and since you are from out-of-state he may grant your request.

mmm159 said:
Finally, why do you suggest to plea no contest?
A plea of NO CONTEST simply means that you do not wish to contest the charge against you, but wish to talk to the Judge about mitigating circumstances. Judgment will be entered by the Judge and some penalty will be set. In many states a plea of no contest cannot be used against you in a civil suit for damages.

mmm159 said:
Do you suggest that I ask about the radar's callibration? I am required to enter a particular plea if I ask about the callibration?
You really have no idea what you are doing so don't waste the judge's time by questioning the LEO about his radar unit.

I understand the Fairfax Court can be tougher than other General District Court's in VA. So, make sure you wear a suit (sport coat) and tie, treat the judge and court officers with respect, address the judge as Judge or your honor, LISTEN to what the judge asks you -- answer his/her question(s), and don't make excuses. You should do fine.

Come back here and let us know how it went. . . Good Luck!

KTL
 

justalayman

Senior Member
mmm159 said:
The charge reads: speed 46/25 mph zone, radar, under law section 46.2-878.2, speeding in a residential district.
for the fun of it you might want to look at Virginia statute 46.2-882. (for defense purposes)

Now here is something I am not sure of in Virginia but is a posibility in other states.
You are indicated with going 21 mph over the posted speed limit. This, by itself, makes a charge of reckless driving a possibility. Now the officer did indicate a charge of lesser offense. In some states, the courts can amend the charge to reflect the greater charge if the evidence does show it to be a valid charge.

Now with that in mind, do you really want to fight the charge the officer was nice enough to tag you with rather than find out if the court can and will decide to charge you with reckless driving??

Something I would want to know before I plead not guilty tomorrow.
 
justalayman said:
for the fun of it you might want to look at Virginia statute 46.2-882. (for defense purposes) Now with that in mind, do you really want to fight the charge the officer was nice enough to tag you with rather than find out if the court can and will decide to charge you with reckless driving?? Something I would want to know before I plead not guilty tomorrow.
§ 46.2-882. Determining speed with various devices; certificate as to accuracy of device; arrest without warrant.

Justalayman has a point. You did say in your original post, "I understand that the officer gave me a break by writing a speeding ticket instead of a misdemeanor for reckless driving."

So, is this a mandatory court appearance, or did you opt for the court appearance to plead your ticket to a reduced charge? If the latter, the LEO may not be too willing to help further. He may state, “Your honor, I clocked the defendant at a speed where a reckless driving could have been cited, but I was trying to give the defendant a break."

What's your strategy going to be if that's the case?

KTL
 

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