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NY: Pled guilty but want to change plea

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hugo718

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? NY

I received a speeding ticket going 78 mph in a 50 zone.
As I wasn't going to purchase insurance for myself in the near future, I was willing to suffer the points, so I just pled guilty and paid the fine.

Now I just got the DRP mail in the letter saying I owe another $450!
I was willing to suffer the initial cost but this additional hit is way too much.
Is there any way i can go back to reverse my plea and fight this?

Thanks in advance
 


You Are Guilty

Senior Member
hugo718 said:
What is the name of your state? NY

I received a speeding ticket going 78 mph in a 50 zone.
As I wasn't going to purchase insurance for myself in the near future, I was willing to suffer the points, so I just pled guilty and paid the fine.

Now I just got the DRP mail in the letter saying I owe another $450!
I was willing to suffer the initial cost but this additional hit is way too much.
Is there any way i can go back to reverse my plea and fight this?

Thanks in advance
Only one, but since a time machine costs a lot more than $450, you may want to just pay the penalty.
 

lwpat

Senior Member
Sounds like you got hit with the New York surcharge. Unfortunately the traffic court doesn't tell you about this. Welcome to the world of "its not the money."
 

Bolthen

Junior Member
That's right... it's all about the money.

There are no safety issues involved at all when someone is blowing by other traffic at 28 mph over the posted limit, right?

At what point does high speed become dangerous? 100 mph or more?

Or is speeding only dangerous when they actually HIT someone else?

not sure how to use the quotes thing, but in all honesty how often do people follow the speed limit, serioulsy you might be right by the book but cmon noone hardly ever uses the speed limit and if they do it is by a loose code, so when you say someone blowing by traffic at 28mph all I see is someone blowing by traffic at 10-5 mph cuz in reality thats what is happening, so please stop with the nonsense post and offer some advice or none at all thankyou
 

cepe10

Member
Curt- your own smug attitude says a lot. Everyone is guilty of being "unsafe" right, beyond a few elderly grandmothers who have limited vision and reflexes.

I have found a good majority of LEO's, and Courts who say safety is their concern, but their own actions and lack of knowledge of traffic engineering dispute this assertion.

Traveling at the 85 percentile speed is actually safer than traveling under the posted speed limit. That's just the fact.

If you would simply work with the highway admin. determine the reasonable speed range and then base you enforecement on travel outside of those limits (BOTH HIGHER AND LOWER) you would have some credibilty and public support.

I challenge you to actually determine the 85 percentile speed for the routes you patrol, (and actually calibrate your instrumentation like a proffession, and abide by the case law, and show up in court and be able to state the facts on the stand rather than a script the court wants to hear.

It is the differential in speed not the speed itself that causes accidents.

How about impeder's... how many impeding tickets have you personally written the last three years - zero I bet. Is it a law - so why don't you enforce it? Give the poor unskilled driver's a break huh since they lack the skills to keep up with the flow of traffic. I understand you are not a professional engineer but do you realize the danger the traffic impeder and inattentive drivers pose to society. A single impeder can reduce the vehicle spacing for miles literally.

You need to learn that you earn respect - you do not command it. By not acting within the confines of the US constitution and the case law - you yourself look worse than real the criminals you should be going after instead of harrassing motorists who have little choice but to travel with the flow, unless you enjoy being run over by fully loaded dumptrucks.
 

cepe10

Member
Again my answer as a registered professional engineer is the same as the ageny I frequently do consulting work for:

Those who drive much faster or slower than most of the drivers around them place themselves and others at considerable risk of a collision.

http://www.sha.state.md.us/safety/oots/trafficsignalsandlaws/speedlimits2.asp

The MDSHA and the licensed engineers take the transportation system seriously.

On a road posted at 50 who even knows how butchered that number could be.

I drive like Karl at the 85% speed - ~74 mph on my 3 hour daily commute on the rural freeway, any faster and it becomes inefficient to run into the many blockages caused by left lane lurkers, any slower and i will be constantly be leap frogged by heavily laden tractor trailers on each and every hill. I would recommend to everyone to find the 85% speed "sweet spot" and travel just below that. It is totally hypocritical to tell people to drive at 60 mph...and be passed by the tractor trailers (which in MD are never pulled over despite having a lower posted speed limit than cars)

On I-70, I-81 that 85% speed occurs with the design speed of the freeway based on the vertical and horizontal cuves, superelevations, and general sight distances and is 75-80 mph except for the well marked curves with signage.

I think the MD state troopers themselves validate this rate by traveling in total disregard for the posted limit usually at 85+ mph without emergency beacons as they do their commute between barracks in the mornings.

So that puts target enforcement at: below 65 mph and above 88 mph.

Of course the measurement has to be ACCURATE. that means gun is calibrated and accurate, that means tuning forks are calibrated and accurate, that means laser guns are tested against a pace car and the calibration on the pace cars speedometer is accurate and up to date, that means all the records are kept and available, that means credible NIST traceable standards are used, that means a proper site is used to get the measurement. at least 3-4 seconds of tracking history are obtained, etc. ALL the DOT, IACP, NHTSA guidelines are followed. without that your "measurement" is useless garbage and should never be allowed to prove anything.

I audited one of the MD barracks books and none of the guns had gone in for their one year certification for accuracy - they had three pro laser guns that all had expired certifications - in fact some had not been checked for speed accuracy in three years:eek:

Again your impeding violation enforcement sounds like a way to find DUI's instead of target enforcement. so it is more of a profiling technique then a speed enforcement... impeding is when you are blocking the passing lane, traveling below the average pace of the flow of vehicles, causing a que of cars to build up behind you and generally reducing the spacing. -those folks I believe should get a 5 point ticket for each and every occurance

I doubt you've ever taken any serious direction from the professional engineers in your state in regards to running an efficient and safe highways system - I know the MD state troopers could care less:) But who knows...

You may need to take your physics again because it is the differential in speed that causes accidents, that and a slew of other factors - like inattentive drivers... How many inattentive drivers caused an accident... gee I wonder...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
cepe10 said:
I doubt you've ever taken any serious direction from the professional engineers in your state in regards to running an efficient and safe highways system
Curt doesn't run the highway system in his state. he merely enforces the laws as passed by the state legislature.

How many inattentive drivers caused an accident... gee I wonder...
So do I. In my state it's not listed at all. But, if you include "other improper driving", "unknown" and "not stated" together they represent 154 fatal (out of 3,701) and 12,142 (of 203,386) injury collisions in 2004. So, somewhere in those categories (4% and 6% respectively) I might expect to find "Inattention".

Unsafe Speed represents 15% of fatal and 29% of injury collisions ... Impeding is so statistically insignificant that it is far less than 1% of each. The only category higher for fatalities was Improper Turning at 18% ... Unsafe Speed was THE highest category for injuries.

- Carl
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Those who drive much faster or slower than most of the drivers around them place themselves and others at considerable risk of a collision.
You are absolutely correct BUT the point is that everybody should drive no faster than the speed limit, not speed and use the "well, everybody else was doing it" excuse. That is a childs game. The point of traffic enforcement is to limit the speed of the entire pack to within the legal limits.



On I-70, I-81 that 85% speed occurs with the design speed of the freeway based on the vertical and horizontal cuves, superelevations, and general sight distances and is 75-80 mph except for the well marked curves with signage.
Well said and in typical engineering BS. If you want the speed limits changed, then talk to those that set them. Your opinion does not change the law and that is why you get the ticket. You do not get to follow the laws you want and ignore those you do not want to follow. If you advocate this, be careful because there is a guy in your city that thinks he should be able to shoot whomever he wishes. If you advocate personal preference should determine the laws, watch out for that guy.

I think the MD state troopers themselves validate this rate by traveling in total disregard for the posted limit usually at 85+ mph without emergency beacons as they do their commute between barracks in the mornings.
and you can't write down their plate or vehicle number and report them? and I bet you will say that the police will not police their own. Have you tried? Have you reported them to the DA after nothing changed when you reported the driver to their supervisor?


So that puts target enforcement at: below 65 mph and above 88 mph.
No, again, target enforcement is the area above the posted limit and below whatever the state deems an impediment to traffic.



I audited one of the MD barracks books and none of the guns had gone in for their one year certification for accuracy - they had three pro laser guns that all had expired certifications - in fact some had not been checked for speed accuracy in three years:eek:
BUT, were they inaccurate when you found this? None of this means they were not accurate, merely not certified to be and because of this should not be accepted in court.

Again your impeding violation enforcement sounds like a way to find DUI's instead of target enforcement.
Wow, you're fast. Of course it is profiling. Many of the drunks don't realize they are driving so poorly or slow. Actually a good idea and technique.

traveling below the average pace of the flow of vehicles, causing a que of cars to build up behind you and generally reducing the spacing
. A slow driver does not cause the spacing to diminish. All the poor drivers that can't wait to get ahead of the situation are the cause of the packing. Again, if there weren't a bunch of idiots that won't follow the speed limit, this would not be happening.

I doubt you've ever taken any serious direction from the professional engineers in your state in regards to running an efficient and safe highways system - I know the MD state troopers could care less:)
as Carl posted before, the police do not make the laws, they merely ticket those that fail to follow them.

You may need to take your physics again because it is the differential in speed that causes accidents,
No, you are wrong and misquoting the origianal statement. The differential is not what causes the accidents, it is drivers. Nothing more (generally), just the drivers. The point of the "physics" statement is the old "force= mass x velocity" thing. So mr. engineer you must realize the truth to that when it comes to the severity of the accidents.


So to your original post:
I received a speeding ticket going 78 mph in a 50 zone.
As I wasn't going to purchase insurance for myself in the near future, I was willing to suffer the points, so I just pled guilty and paid the fine.

It's speaks for itself. You broke the law. You are still breaking the law and intend to continue to break the law. You deserved the ticket you got (and much more apparently) and now you gripe that it's not fair it costs so much. Too bad,. Quit breaking the law and it won;t cost as much ever again.
 

DRTDEVL

Member
Curt doesn't run the highway system in his state. he merely enforces the laws as passed by the state legislature.


So do I. In my state it's not listed at all. But, if you include "other improper driving", "unknown" and "not stated" together they represent 154 fatal (out of 3,701) and 12,142 (of 203,386) injury collisions in 2004. So, somewhere in those categories (4% and 6% respectively) I might expect to find "Inattention".

Unsafe Speed represents 15% of fatal and 29% of injury collisions ... Impeding is so statistically insignificant that it is far less than 1% of each. The only category higher for fatalities was Improper Turning at 18% ... Unsafe Speed was THE highest category for injuries.

- Carl
There is a problem with your numbers...

If an inattentive driver just happens to be going over the speed limit at the time of the collision (or leading up to it), it is automatically attributed to excess speed. Usually an inattentive driver is the one making the improper turns.

If all the "highest charge" BS is thrown out the window, Inattentive Operation would be the cause of well over 50% of collisions.;)
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
There is a problem with your numbers...
Not at all.

In CA the Primary Collision Factor is attributed to a specific Vehicle Code violation in most cases, and other articulable circumstances in some. "Inattention" IS permissable, but it is usually listed as an "Associated factor" and not as a PCF.

While someone could be not paying attention, there is no way to record that. One has to record the ACT, not the underlying belief that the driver might have been HUA.

So you can presume that 50% are inattentive if you choose to do, but at least in my state it would be no more than aguess as it is not a recorded cause for collisions ... and since the question being replied to was: "How many inattentive drivers caused an accident (?)"
my answer stands as it concerns CA.

It's like saying stupidity would be the cause of well over 50% of crimes. Stupid people commit crimes ... and inattentive people commit violations of the law that cause collisions.

- Carl
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
Traveling at the 85 percentile speed is actually safer than traveling under the posted speed limit. That's just the fact.
Er, that's not quite right. It may be statistics, but that doesn't mean fact. If you aren't quite sure what I mean, you could take a look at the "bread" argument...
 

cepe10

Member
It's speaks for itself. You broke the law. You are still breaking the law and intend to continue to break the law. You deserved the ticket you got (and much more apparently) and now you gripe that it's not fair it costs so much. Too bad,. Quit breaking the law and it Won't cost as much ever again.
(1) I'm not the original poster and yes I fully intend to travel in excess of the posted speed limits where they are posted artificially low - along with 90% of the travelers trying to get from point A to point B in a safe an efficient manner.
(2) You are a total hypocrite - I would probably only have to follow you around for 10 minutes with my GPS unit which is calibrated to a NIST traceable standard to show you violating the posted speed limits enough times to lose your license. - Quit being a Hypocrite if you want any credibility.
(3) The police agencies groups and the insurance industry are probably the biggest lobbyist groups promoting artificially low speed limits which are not based on sound science, highway design standards, and highway capacity engineering.
(4) The state highway administrations show you the target enforcement range. There's the "out" to perform enforcement on a reasonable basis with a sound policy. Read the highway safet desk book by the NHTSA for sound enforcement policy, it backs up what I am saying. Arbitrary and capricious enforcement is the problem and is NOT adressing any safety issues.
 

cepe10

Member
No, again, target enforcement is the area above the posted limit and below whatever the state deems an impediment to traffic.
A slow driver does not cause the spacing to diminish. All the poor drivers that can't wait to get ahead of the situation are the cause of the packing. Again, if there weren't a bunch of idiots that won't follow the speed limit, this would not be happening.
They do when they travel in the passing lane below the posted speed limit and travel right next to a slow moving tractor trailer for miles at a time...I've seen this all the time, there is a law against it, it does cause a dangerous spacing situation where none should be occuring, it does cause a designed transportation system to become inefficient, and the law is never or rarely enforced. can you say arbitrary and capricious?

About the troopers going 20-30 mph over the speed limt on their barrack commutes - I don't really care to turn them in, their cars can handle it and they are good enough drivers, I do wish they would use their beacons though so that the traffic could see them approaching and get out of their way easier:) And it does set the example that the speed limit is artifically low.
 

cepe10

Member
It's like saying stupidity would be the cause of well over 50% of crimes. Stupid people commit crimes ... and inattentive people commit violations of the law that cause collisions.

- Carl
I think the point was that....

traveling at 64 mph and you are not looking and hit a vehicle from behind and it would not be attributable to unsafe speed, while at 65 mph it would be attributed to "unsafe speed" though the speed is certainly not unsafe. Since the limits are posted artificially low in most cases this will make those statistics void of any legitimate meaning.

Again you are not looking at root causes, especially with the impeding. If one vehicle can reduce the spacing on the freeway for a couple of miles from 10 car lengths to 4 car lengths it is causing a substantially increased risk of a collision...
 

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