Contract Breach?

What is the name of your state? VA

Hi everyone again,

If an employee signs an offer letter/contract to be employed as a senior employee, can the company change the title to a demoted associate (without notice)? Or is that breach of contract? The reason given is not demotion but rather "changing job titles."

Thanks,
tboy74

First of all, it is rare indeed that an offer letter reaches the level of a contract.

Second, if you were PROMOTED and your title thus changed, do you think that would be a breach of contract?

Either it is, or it isn't. If it's a breach for one, it's a breach for the other. So think very carefully what you want the answer to be.

Contract Breach/Retaliation Follow-up

cbg said:

First of all, it is rare indeed that an offer letter reaches the level of a contract.

Second, if you were PROMOTED and your title thus changed, do you think that would be a breach of contract?

Either it is, or it isn't. If it's a breach for one, it's a breach for the other. So think very carefully what you want the answer to be.

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- Offer Letter vs contract - The letter is signed by all parties involved, and it states you will perform these tasks as this title at this rate. Not too much different than the contracts I create for my freelance business.

- On the second piece about the promotion - I was asking that question about my co-worker's situation. She and another co-worker received offer letters for the same title and same position, but the company is now claiming that they have different titles (one lower than the other). We are government contractors - we don't receive promotions in the way that it sounds like you are thinking. If we want a job with a better title and pay, we have to wait for a position to open, wait for the request for applicants goes out to the public and contract, then apply (like anyone from the public), get interviewed (unless they waive it), and then be hired into the new position.

As far as *I* am concerned, I feel it looks like they covering up my "promotion" (new job, if you will) so that they don't get busted for retaliation. Immediately following my EEOC complaint, I received an evaluation with negative marks (2s) and disparaging comments. My first 4 evaluations were all golden. In fact, the last 2 years of evaluations, I received several 5s (the highest score) and an overall score of 4.5 -- well above most people on the contract. I also received a promotion (or rather, I moved into the new job with better pay and title) in the same year (and I have emails stating that the company waived the interview because my work spoke for itself) for which I also recieved negative marks. It doesn't make sense that a company would promote someone who was not meeting company expecations, as the eval now claims with the 2s. (And then there's also the more than 25 emails I have from the same year from a slew of customers giving me golden remarks). The eval also "mysteriously" disappeared from my personnel folder -- along with a whole slew of other documentation, including records of the job title change.

Fortunalely, the company can't REALLY cover up our job titles chages, as we bill the government for our work, and the job code notations are noted on all kinds of documentation, including timesheets. The evidence is there -- and, quite frankly, not hard to obtain.

tboy74

If you want to know whether any given offer letter is a contract, you're going to have to show it to an attorney in your state. I was simply pointing out one of the reasons I find this "offer letter is a contract" business to be nonsense. If it were, you could never get a raise or more benefits or a promotion; you'd be held to what was in the letter. I find it interesting how many people want an offer letter to be a contract if they're losing something, but suddenly it's not a contract when it means they get something better.

Guess I touched a nerve

cbg said:

If you want to know whether any given offer letter is a contract, you're going to have to show it to an attorney in your state. I was simply pointing out one of the reasons I find this "offer letter is a contract" business to be nonsense. If it were, you could never get a raise or more benefits or a promotion; you'd be held to what was in the letter. I find it interesting how many people want an offer letter to be a contract if they're losing something, but suddenly it's not a contract when it means they get something better.

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You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about contracts, and you can't answer any questions about the situation without an attitude -- and that's OK, but perhaps there is someone else without a chip on the shoulder and who is a real expert on law who can give an educated answer?

This isn't just about wanting something better and sticking it to "da man". It's about retaliation as well as government fraud. The bottom line is: The government is paying for people with a level of expertise and the company is billing the government for those experts at specifc rates tied to the job titles.

thanks again,
tboy74

Read the first sentence of my second post. That is your answer.

cbg said:

Read the first sentence of my second post. That is your answer.

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Did you read my post? Obviously a new contract for a new position is given. In fact, everyone I know in the government contracting field who gets a "promotion" gets a new offer letter, so your point is MOOT. That is how the issue of promotion is worked out with the contract -- a new offer letter goes out. This is not hard to understand.

I think you simply don't understand government contracting, which is ok, but like someone else said on this forum to you - this is an advice forum, so please don't give out advice if you don't understand the subject.

Interesting enough, I was sitting here thinking, wow you sound just as incompetent as the people on my HR staff. And now I see why - because that is the field you are in -- I am sorry - it's just been my experience that HR reps do not understand how to follow the law.


Thanks,
tboy74

You are mistaken if you believe that all federal government contractors handle employment in the manner you describe. Nonetheless, it is almost impossible to evaluate the terms of a written contract without reading and evaluating it. Given that, you should employ an attorney who specializes in contract law and let him/her evaluate your or your co-worker's contract. If you are concerned that your employer is defrauding the government, you should notify the agency's Office of Inspector General or the government agency's office of procurement and contracts.

and not in expertise on how to best break the law without getting caught

I take very strong offense at this statement. NOTHING I have posted even remotely suggests that I have EVER made any attempt at breaking the law, with or without getting caught, and if your comment is supposed to be an attack on my profession, that's just as if not more offensive.

Nothing you say about me or my supposed lack of understanding of or problems with contracts is going to change the fact that no one can interpret a contract they have not read.

Your offensive comments are being reported to the moderator.

mitousmom said:

You are mistaken if you believe that all federal government contractors handle employment in the manner you describe. Nonetheless, it is almost impossible to evaluate the terms of a written contract without reading and evaluating it. Given that, you should employ an attorney who specializes in contract law and let him/her evaluate your or your co-worker's contract. If you are concerned that your employer is defrauding the government, you should notify the agency's Office of Inspector General or the government agency's office of procurement and contracts.

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Thank you for the advice. I've been on this particular contract for 5 years - so I do know how this contract works and functions. I am going to let my coworkers handle their own situation (I was asking out of my own curiosity). I'm actively pursuing my own charges already. As for the defrauding -- I think the government customer is about to pursue this on its own, though additional complaints wouldn't hurt.

Thanks,
tboy74

cbg said:

and not in expertise on how to best break the law without getting caught

I take very strong offense at this statement. NOTHING I have posted even remotely suggests that I have EVER made any attempt at breaking the law, with or without getting caught, and if your comment is supposed to be an attack on my profession, that's just as if not more offensive.

Nothing you say about me or my supposed lack of understanding of or problems with contracts is going to change the fact that no one can interpret a contract they have not read.

Your offensive comments are being reported to the moderator.

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Good - and perhaps the moderator will now step in and admonish you for intentionally giving very bad advice to the people who come here looking for assistance. I came here to ask for advice, not to get into a flame war with someone who has a chip on the shoulder. From my point of view, I'm done interacting with you.

Thanks,
tboy74

cbg said:

If you want to know whether any given offer letter is a contract, you're going to have to show it to an attorney in your state.

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This is your good advice. Take it and go away.

Oh, yes, I'm quite sure the moderator is going to agree with you that telling you to have an attorney review the document is (intentional) bad advice.