Red Light Camera Ticket

California

I live in California and in early September received a Red Light Camera ticket. I was surprised when I got the ticket since I looked at the light prior to entering the intersection and it was still yellow. Well apparently the camera showed me 2-3 feet shy of the intersection when the light turned and according to the banner at the top of the ticket the light was red a total of 12/100ths of a second before I crossed the limit line (I was traveling at 34mph in a 40mph zone). Well it turns out after calling the city's traffic engineer that the yellow interval timing was set too short at that intersection on or about the date of my ticket. However, the Traffic Engineer said they don't keep records of when they adjust the timing, but he remembered it was several tenths of a second.

I opted to do a Trial by Declaration so that I can potentially have two chances to plead my case, which is that the light was not a steady red (vehicle code cited in my TBD), that the timing was not consistent with the CALTRANS specifications of interval timing (vehicle code cited in my TBD) and that the signal was not properly calibrated (vehicle code cited in TBD). The officer that will respond is on contract with the City to review the video's and will probably not mention the adjustment to the interval timing. He will likely just state that the photo shows me crossing the limit light on red. My argument is that a mere 2 or 3 tenths of a second difference in the interval timing would have put me well into the intersection when the light turned red and no ticket would have been issued. What are my chances of getting the ticket dismissed. I had photos, names, dates and times of my conversations with the Traffic Engineer, etc...

Thanks

I don't know how anyone can give you odds since we do not know the judge or the specific arguments.

If you have an admission in writing from the traffic engineer regarding the bad timing, then you will likely prevail. If not, then it is up in the air.

- Carl

Fight back!

Very interesting.

The average red light cam ticket for a straight-through violation (not turning left or right) is 0.4 seconds late. So, for purposes of argument, if the yellow was 0.4 seconds too short, it would have the effect of doubling the number of cites, and quite unfairly so. That is something that might be of interest to the local press, and I would like to suggest that you contact them. (You may want to stay away from the local paper that publishes the City's legal ads - they will be afraid of losing that stead revenue stream.) Exposure in the press might force the city to do a refund of all tickets issued while the light was too short. There have been mass refunds in a number of cities, including Costa Mesa and Union City. I'd also like to suggest that you report it to the several prominent web sites about the cams. You can find them by google-ing the words red light camera ticket.

The traffic engineer who told you that they don't keep track of signal settings was full of it. Traffic engineers are religious about keeping "signal timing charts." You, or a reporter, can do a public records act request for the current and previous charts, going back as far as you wish, and the city will have to cough them up.

Pug

Actually, the Traffic Engineer said that they keep maintenance records. However, apparently the interval timing is set manually and the maintenance is done by an outside contractor. In any case the contractor set the interval wrong and the City received a complaint that the light seemed to short. Upon investigation at the site, the Traffic Engineer determined it was set improperly and then set the interval to the proper time. However, he did not log the date the adjustment was made. He said he thought he received the original complaint by email, but that their system deletes emails after 30 days (they hate public info requests and this keeps emails away from view if older than 30 days). He did not know how long the problem had occurred, but said the contractor may keep records of when they may have changed the time...just that he did not have the info or direct access to it. This is a small city (65K people) so they may not be great at record keeping.

Traffic engineer on sharp hook, ouch, ouch!

That traffic engineer sure is wiggling hard. He is now realizing the (future) value of not letting the presence of a cute female cause one's mouth to run.

The city probably sent the contractor a work order, and the contractor probably sent the city a bill! Old emails never really go away. So, there is plenty of papers to find.

But it sounds like you don't have the killer instinct to go after that stuff, so sic a reporter on him. The other citizens who got bogus tickets at the short light need justice too.

Pug

Oh Yeah!!!

Just got back the notice from the court regarding my Trial by Declaration on my Red Light Camera ticket....and it said NOT GUILTY....my $361 bail will be returned with in 60 days!

Cyn H said:

Just got back the notice from the court regarding my Trial by Declaration on my Red Light Camera ticket....and it said NOT GUILTY....my $361 bail will be returned with in 60 days!

Click to expand...

Nice job! a good example of why not to just "pay the ticket"

Furthermore great job at going after the facts and calibration - this is a common weak link in the states cases.

Just think of all the insurance money you saved as well!

Now that you are in the clear, I hope that you will tell a reporter about the short yellow. There's probably a few hundred other people who got bogus tickets too.

Part of your civic duty is to keep government honest.

Pug