Possesion

What is the name of your state? California

My girlfriend was pulled over last night for expired registration. The officer saw a waterpipe when speaking to her in the back seat and asked her if she had pot in the car. She answered yes and the car was searched and pot found (less than 28.5g).

She was given a ticket and cited Ca VC 23222(b). She was then let go. She has no prior arrests for anything drug related however she is on probation for a disturbing the peace arrest. She is a type 1 diabetic and smokes pot to help with pain and other issues assoicated with disease.

My questions:

The ticket only cites the possession. Could a not guilty plea be entered and a defense built around there being no indication of reasonable cause for search? The ticket doesn't indicate any reason for being pulled over.

What / who determines whether a crime is Fed or State or whatever? Just out of curiosity.

This ticket was issued in another county of CA (vs. where her disturbing the peace arrest had taken place). When she goes to court will it be known that a probation violation occured and just in very general terms what might that bring into play (the disturbing the peace thing was as minor a conviction as i guess you could get for such a thing).

Last question: We aren't rich... that being said we would have a tough time paying for attorney but her losing her job because of having to do jail or whatever would be worse. Can you give guestimate as to how seriously we should consider getting an attorney?

Thank you

My girlfriend was pulled over last night for expired registration.

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Probable cause to stop the vehicle and speak to the driver.

The officer saw a waterpipe when speaking to her in the back seat

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Are all dopers this stupid?

and asked her if she had pot in the car. She answered yes and the car was searched and pot found (less than 28.5g).

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So the officer had already found paraphenalia and then got consent to search.

She is a type 1 diabetic and smokes pot to help with pain and other issues assoicated with disease.

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Now that's just silly. She smokes pot cause she likes it. don't make up these BS excuses.

Could a not guilty plea be entered and a defense built around there being no indication of reasonable cause for search?

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You can say anything you want, but the police officer will say, as you admitted, that there was a reason to pull the car over, that the paraphenalia was in plain sight, and that consent was given. Guilty!

What / who determines whether a crime is Fed or State or whatever?

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If the feds have a desire and justification to take over the case they can. I see no reason for simple possession to interest them at all.

When she goes to court will it be known that a probation violation occured and just in very general terms what might that bring into play (the disturbing the peace thing was as minor a conviction as i guess you could get for such a thing).

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She should check the terms of your probation - she probably has to report all contact with the police. Failure to do so may be a violation in and of itself.

Since I can't tell if you're kidding or not, I'll treat your questions as though they're serious.

Could a not guilty plea be entered and a defense built around there being no indication of reasonable cause for search?

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No. The water pipe was in plain view, which gave the arresting officer reason to suspect drug posession.

The ticket doesn't indicate any reason for being pulled over.

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You're grasping at straws here. You said yourself that she was pulled over for bad registration.

Smoking pot is a life choice. I won't rag on you for it, but you're doing it wrong if you're getting busted like this. Some advice for the future that will help keep you of a courtroom:

Always keep your car legal - registration, license, brakelights, etc. These are great big "kick-me" signs for a cop to pull you over.

Don't leave bongs, papers, bowls, baggies ANYTHING that could be considered
paraphenalia in plain view of the cops - you're just begging for a posession charge there.

Stop driving around with that much pot on you! Know where the line is for misdemeanor posession and never EVER cross it.

And that's my $.02

Drewoops said:

The ticket only cites the possession. Could a not guilty plea be entered and a defense built around there being no indication of reasonable cause for search? The ticket doesn't indicate any reason for being pulled over.

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As previously mentioned, the pipe was seen, and consent was given.

What / who determines whether a crime is Fed or State or whatever? Just out of curiosity.

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The law. Most crimes are going to be violations of state law unless there is some component of the violation that can be argued to have crossed state lines or involve interstate commerce. In general, most street offense are going to be violations of state law as this will be. The feds don't do simple possession cases for less than an ounce of pot.

This ticket was issued in another county of CA (vs. where her disturbing the peace arrest had taken place). When she goes to court will it be known that a probation violation occured and just in very general terms what might that bring into play (the disturbing the peace thing was as minor a conviction as i guess you could get for such a thing).

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It could violate her probation in the county where she is on probation. She needs to report this citation to her probation officer. If not, when they find out about it (and they WILL find out about it), they will almost certainly violate her probation.

Last question: We aren't rich... that being said we would have a tough time paying for attorney but her losing her job because of having to do jail or whatever would be worse. Can you give guestimate as to how seriously we should consider getting an attorney?

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This offense is punishable by a fine, probation, and counseling - no jail is possible for the violation. Jail might be possible on the probation violation if her probation officer chooses to yank her for it.


- Carl

If she pleads (or is found guilty) the maximum penalty is $100 plus penalty & assessment, usually about $300.

The legislature, at one time, required the court to send an abstract of this conviction to DMV and there was (supposed to be) a suspension of the DL. I don't believe it was ever put into practice by the courts.

Most Prosecutors will offer a 'deferred entry of judgment' type dispo - do some Narcotic Anonymous meetings or comm service & Prosecutor will reduce or dismiss. This is an excellent idea if she can get this offer - it keeps a drug conviction off her record.

I doubt if she is on supervised probation for a misdemeanor - it's usually just court supervision.
I would not advise probation, or the other court, about this incident.
If she is on supervised probation, they are too busy in CA to follow up on mj unless there's something special about the case.
Only realy aggressive Prosecutors notify the other court of new mj charges.

Public Defenders are adept at handling this charge (especially in CA.)

I suppose it depends on the county you're in regarding probation notification. In a smaller county like mine, they almost always find out about it and depending on the P.O., they may opt to violate the person. But, if informal or court probation, then the odds are greatly diminished that they will either discover or act on it. If formal probation, the odds are much higher that they will find out about it.

But this is just based on my local experience.

- Carl

My knowledge is very strong in Los Angeles County & to a lesser extent in Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange County.....

The larger counties are out of money for the probation dept, so, in L.A., for example, supervised probation (a probation officer) is only for felony cases.

Also, Prosecutors are too busy to handle misdemeanor probation violations, unless it's 'special' -- injuries, multiple duis, escalation of DV...

It would be extremely unusual, in L.A., for a Prosecutor to approve/present a PV for mj.

If OP's friend doesn't tell about the mj charge, nothing would happen down South.

That PC415 only carries 90 days county jail and Judges RARELY give any jail on that charge (it's loud music, or fighting in public or cursing in public).

OP, your friend has two low-level misdemeanors.
She won't get jail, but she really should act more responsibly (ie- grow up or keep revolving between courts).
The new offense could prevent the 415 from being expunged (erased) from her record.

It appeared to be much the same as you indicate in San Diego County when I worked there. However, my contact with probation officers was rare down there, and I couldn't say what the reality was.

I work closely with probation officers in three counties up here and we are fortunate enough to have a little more flexibility in supervision ... for the moment. However, my county's jail had never been filled to capacity until the past several months. Now, probation revocations are unlikely to result in custody for more than 72 hours (or less if they can get before a judge) due to the overcrowding.

- Carl

What's scary, down here, is the 'private jail' facilities that are flourishing.

Some Prosecutors are accepting plea bargains for these facilities, for serious felony cases (usually drug cases - they're the only ones who can afford it).
I saw one for two years. The cost to the defendant was about $80 per night.

Also, L.A. county Sheriff's has been releasing REAL early due to overcrowding (misdemeanors are doing 10 to 20 percent of the time ordered).

Maybe Sheriff Joe in Maricopa has the best answer.

God Bless Sheriff Joe! He has his flaws, but maybe he has struck a chord with a new way to look at "warehousing".

I have yet to ever work in an area with one of these private facilities. The closest we have is a contract youth facility in an adjacent county that from the outside would appear to be a CYA facility, but is in reality a pseudo-private concern with a government contract. Our jail receives money to house inmates from two adjacent counties and that has resulted in our being impacted ... no early releases, yet. At least not publicized as such.

Our juveniles, on the other hand, aren't likely to spend ANY time in the hall unless they have committed a violent felony. So we have the same burglars and hoodlums going in and right back out again every week. It's a joke, and the kids that are the problem know it ... it's not even a deterrent - it's a break place where they can get together, chat, catch up, and watch a little TV without being nagged.

- Carl

girlfriends posession

Thank you CDwJava, danno6925 and Garrula Lingua for sharing your knowledge and insight... much appreciated.

Mr. SomeRandomGuy... reading is interpretive so maybe I just read your response in the wrong voice but it sure seemed like a lot of effort just to try to make me feel dumb (which, I don't). I came in here to ask some questions and hopefully get some answers... not to be scolded.

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I guess I didn't do a good job in articulating my question in regard to the ticket. As I stated, my girlfriend was pulled over for expired registration. I understand that once the officer came up to the car and saw what he believed to be some sort of parphanilia was probable cause for search. What I don't understand is that since the registration issue isn't on the ticket... if it went to court what would the officer say was the reason he pulled her over for? It's not on the document created at the time of the event (at least not that was given to her... which again, is why I'm asking). I've never been in trouble with the law so I don't know how this stuff works. My girlfriend was simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with the disturbing the peace deal... fighting the charge would have cost her time from work (she's at a new job) and made things difficult. She took the plea because it was easy. Simple truth...

And so far as the comment that smoking MJ to help with some of the effects of Diabietes is BS... how would you know? Have you had Diabietes since you were 4 or 5? It's a horrible disease. I could have doubts about the benefit she gets from the weed but if you were hurting inside and found something that helped a little... would you want people second guessing you? I'm not saying the comment is right or wrong... just suggesting that sometimes we (people) don't look at things from all sides as well as we might think.

We are in San Diego... the ticket was issued in southern Riverside Co.

Drewoops said:

What I don't understand is that since the registration issue isn't on the ticket... if it went to court what would the officer say was the reason he pulled her over for? It's not on the document created at the time of the event (at least not that was given to her... which again, is why I'm asking).

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He is under no legal obligation to cite her for the registration violation. He can articulate in court why he stopped her. The fact he did not issue a citation for the violation is not relevant to a determination of reasonable suspicion to justify the detention.

And so far as the comment that smoking MJ to help with some of the effects of Diabietes is BS...

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It's because anyone with a hangnail can get a doctor's recommendation to use marijuana. The vast majority of people who smoke marijuana with these recommendations do so because they want to smoke pot, not because marijuana is an effective "medicine." It's easy to become cynical on the topic of "medical" marijuana for a host of reasons. I suspect that is why you received the response you did regarding the marijuana and diabetes.

We are in San Diego... the ticket was issued in southern Riverside Co.

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Then chances are the probation violation is not likely.

- Carl

Since she is in California and has a legitimate documented need she should have no problem obtaining a prescription for medical marijuana and an ID card from the State. It is silly to live there and not take advantage of this wonderful system and then the next time you're stopped she can tell the policeman to give her her weed back!

Maybe Sheriff Joe in Maricopa has the best answer.

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He doesn't. Trust me, it is all smoke and mirrors. Plus millions of dollars paid out in lawsuits to the point where Maricopa County is going broke paying insurance premiums.

If it makes you sleep better knowing pretrial detainees, who may or may not be guilty, are eating green baloney while guilty convicted criminals who are eating steak in prison, then maybe he does have the answer.

If he was a prison director instead of a Sheriff, I would be a bigger fan.

CopsAreStupid said:

Since she is in California and has a legitimate documented need she should have no problem obtaining a prescription for medical marijuana and an ID card from the State. It is silly to live there and not take advantage of this wonderful system and then the next time you're stopped she can tell the policeman to give her her weed back!

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You have the brain power of a gnat.

Medical need of mj is a DEFENSE in CA. The Prosecutor can require that the defendant have the doctor, who wrote the script, come to court and testify as to the medical need. Doctors won't - they'll get cut to ribbons & it costs them time and money (and there's usually no basis).
Any good Prosecutor can tear most of these Drs a new one: for example, if there is a medical need, why can't the defendant use it in PILL FORM ?

You are a total idiot - posting incorrect, ludicrous advice/info under the moniker 'cops are stupid'.