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Where is the justice?

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Blindrift

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? NJ

The other night I was threatened with a gun by my ex in philadelphia. The philadelphia police are handling this but because I live in NJ as does my ex they said that I had to get a restraining order there and that I should go to my town police station immediatly and get an emergency TRO. So I did that, only when I got to the station I was treated like I commited the crime. It should be noted that I had brought them emails a week before in which she threatened to do exactly what she eventually did. They did nothing with them. I gave them a phone number she had called me from several times over the last few months, and they did nothing.
Now it should be noted that me and my ex have been having problems for over a year now. This is not my fault as she refuses to back off. 8 months ago we filed restaining orders against each other. I was denied, but she won hers. Three days after winning it she emailed me and began mocking me and telling me that she can contact me, but I can't because I'll go to jail. I recieved many of these the last few months, not once did I talk to her, then they began turning violent. Twice I alerted my local police and they simply shrugged and said there was nothing they could do and that I should change my number and email. Well I did, and that lead her to find me and pull a gun. So as I was saying I went to the station for an emergency order and they greeted me by saying "You again, this is becoming an event with you. You know this really needs to stop." They said this over and over in a firm manner that was obviously intended to intimidate me, as if I was causing the problem. They put me on with the judge and the judge seemed more interested in her restraining order then in what I was accusing her of. He declined to give it to me and said I should change my email and phone, I informed him I did, he said nothing. Ok, is it me or does the idea of changing your information sound pointless when the person has come after you with a gun already, how would changing my number protect me? She's already proven that isn't going to stop her, and why isn't anyone addressing the fact that she's abusing the restraining order? Look, she screwed my damn life up with this order and that's not enough for her, she has to harass me with it knowing I can't do anything back, you mean to tell me they are just going to let her do this and tell me to keep changing my life around for her? That's not right. Now she's running around with a gun unchecked, and I was refused protection. The police here refuse to do anything and whats worse they are treating me like I'm the bad guy.
How is this right? Even the philly detective was shocked by this. How can these police do nothing? How can they treat me like they did and deny me protection? I mean she pulled a GUN on me! There has to be something I can do about this, she can't be allowed to abuse the order and pull guns when ever she wants and I'm expected to endlesly change my life around to avoid her. This is insanity! I mean I don't know that she wouldn't actually try and shoot me, maybe then I'll get attention. Maybe this is why a good percentage of domestic violence situations end in murder, because of situations like this.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
Are there any witnesses to her threats to you? If not, and it is your word against hers, it would look like a case of sour grapes to a judge and probably to the cops.

E-mails are okay, but without verification of source (IP address, etc.) they are not definitive. Plus, sending annoying e-mail or making annoying phone calls may not be criminal in your state. Even if they are, these still also need to be proven. And for a low grade misdemeanor, unless your local cops have a lot of time on their hands, they aren't likely to go write a series of search warrants to serve on ISPs in other states to track her IP address.

I'd suggest you invest in a video camera to start with.

- Carl
 

Kane

Member
In the second sentence of your post you said the Philly police were handling the gun case.

I'm not from there, but ordinarily assault with a deadly weapon (that is the charge, right?) is a very serious felony offense. If they are pressing charges (getting a warrant, making an arrest) you're getting as much justice as anyone ever gets in these cases. If getting a felony charge doesn't change her behavior, nothing will - certainly not a retraining order. Violating a restraining order is small potatoes compared to threatening somebody with a gun.

It sounds like, from your post, that your local police are sick of dealing with you. Maybe they're being unreasonable. Maybe not. I don't know. Either way, a restraining order is just a piece of paper. It won't protect you from a crazy gun-owning vengeful ex.

What strikes me as odd about your post is that you seem more upset about her emails, than about having a loaded gun trained on you. If that's the case, it makes it less surprising the local police are taking you as just another party to a petty domestic dispute who wants to get the police involved in who-sent-what-email to whom.

Your main concern needs to be bullets, not how much trouble it is to change your email. You are telling the truth about the gun, right?
 

Blindrift

Junior Member
I'm very concerned about the gun, I'm paranoid whenever I am outside my house, and I'm concerned about my family as well. However, I feel that if the emails in question were given to the police well in advance of the gun incident, had they been taken more seriously or had some sort of action, no matter how minor was taken, prehapes the gun incident would never have occured. Suppose she did more then point it at myself and my friend, suppose she shot he and I? Yes I will get justice as they are issuing a warrent, but that doesn't change the fact that prevention measures could have stopped a bad situation from getting worse. I don't think that's unreasonable.

The fact of the matter is that this is nothing new, she has been threatening me via email and phone for months, not once did the police do anything about it, not even place a call to her warning her to cease and desist. I just feel that's wrong, and now this has all gotten so crazy and dangerous.

The Philly police have been handling this very well and effieciently, but rightfully, they feel like something NJ should have handled has spilled over into their yard. As the philly dectective told me "Harassment is still a crime, and deserves just as much attention as any other."
 

acmb05

Senior Member
In the second sentence of your post you said the Philly police were handling the gun case.

I'm not from there, but ordinarily assault with a deadly weapon (that is the charge, right?) is a very serious felony offense. If they are pressing charges (getting a warrant, making an arrest) you're getting as much justice as anyone ever gets in these cases. If getting a felony charge doesn't change her behavior, nothing will - certainly not a retraining order. Violating a restraining order is small potatoes compared to threatening somebody with a gun.

It sounds like, from your post, that your local police are sick of dealing with you. Maybe they're being unreasonable. Maybe not. I don't know. Either way, a restraining order is just a piece of paper. It won't protect you from a crazy gun-owning vengeful ex.

What strikes me as odd about your post is that you seem more upset about her emails, than about having a loaded gun trained on you. If that's the case, it makes it less surprising the local police are taking you as just another party to a petty domestic dispute who wants to get the police involved in who-sent-what-email to whom.

Your main concern needs to be bullets, not how much trouble it is to change your email. You are telling the truth about the gun, right?
More than likely they are not taking it so seriously because it is a woman making threats towards a man. I know that sounds sexist but that is just the way it is. If this were a woman complaining about this the man would have been immediately arrested.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Blindrift said:
The Philly police have been handling this very well and effieciently, but rightfully, they feel like something NJ should have handled has spilled over into their yard. As the philly dectective told me "Harassment is still a crime, and deserves just as much attention as any other."
Not all crimes can be treated equally, and "harassment" may be a crime in PA, but it may not be a crime in NJ. In my state, harassing e-mails is a pretty low-level misdemeanor and most DA's here tend to want to see a restraining order before thy act. And depending on how busy the local police are, they may not have the time or the inclination to follow-up on a complaint of annoying e-mail. Or, your town department just doesn't have the manpower to follow-up on the e-mail reports.

Response to reported crimes is a political issue, and in your area there may just not be the demand to act. You can always bring up the issue to your local police administration, or the city council. Maybe things will change for future responses.

- Carl
 

Kane

Member
prevention measures could have stopped a bad situation from getting worse.
Suppose you'd had a restraining order in your hands in Philly, would that have stopped her?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
It would have made the e-mails (if they happened in PA) a criminal act potentially subject to arrest.

One reason I suggest that everyone with these kinds of problems get a restraining order is that the presence of that order makes an otherwise lawful contact into something the police can act on. In my state DV related R/O violations REQUIRE an arrest if there is probable cause. No other statute (off the top of my head) has such "shall arrest" language.

- Carl
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Not all crimes can be treated equally, and "harassment" may be a crime in PA, but it may not be a crime in NJ. I
This is harassment by communication in PA (and is a misdemeanor, where ordinary harassment is usually a summary offense). If either end of the communication occurs in PA, it applies.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
FlyingRon said:
This is harassment by communication in PA (and is a misdemeanor, where ordinary harassment is usually a summary offense). If either end of the communication occurs in PA, it applies.
But the OP is complaining that the police in his home in NJ are not treating it seriously. Chances are this is not a serious offense in NJ ... heck, it's probably not that serious even in PA. But, like all police response, it is a political matter and dependent upon resources and political priorities.

- Carl
 

Blindrift

Junior Member
Everyone makes valid points, but I'm inclined to feel that lack of resources or political red tape should not be an issue when it comes to an american citizens safety. Sadly it is, as is the sexist way matters are handled when concerning gender. An example is how my Ex obtained her R/O. She presented fake emails to her township police and they immediatly issued a warrent and helped her obtain an emergency order. I brought REAL emails to my township police and attempted to hit her with the same thing but was denied, even afterI was threatened with a gun. Anyway you dice that, it's unfair. Now I'm scared whenever I leave the house. Yes she will be arrested, but when she gets out I have no real defense. Because of the order she has on me I can't even arm myself. I'm left hanging when all this could have been avoided simply by taking precautionary measures, it doesn't take much resources to pick a phone up and ask her to cease and desist. Besides, the area I live in hasn't so much as had a jay walker in recent years, hell the stations actually close at 5pm.

The fact of the matter is that to fight crime, you first must find ways to prevent it. To simply ignore emails threatening to kill someone and then still do nothing when they have physically produced a weapon and threatened to harm you is just inexcusable. Unfortunatly complaining to the township or Councilmen is a waste of time as the crime statistics are so low in NJ that they don't feel any reason to pay much attention to the police and their methods and that ladies and gentleman is why NJ is the biggest police state in the country.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Blindrift said:
Everyone makes valid points, but I'm inclined to feel that lack of resources or political red tape should not be an issue when it comes to an american citizens safety.
That's reality. There are NOT enough cops to handle every problem equally. Also, the laws tend to treat these offenses rather lightly further reducing the impetus for police to act. Many of these cases fall flat because the intent cannot be proven, or it cannot be definitively shown that the defendant made the phone call or sent the e-mail. And, frankly, the police are not likely to spend many hours seeking search warrants and subpoenas to track down phone and ISP records and IP addresses.

And, quite frankly, most these threats are issued in anger, amount to nothing, and one party or the other uses law enforcement as a way to play "gotcha!" at their ex. Thus, it's little surprise that they might not treat it as seriously as you might like.

She presented fake emails to her township police and they immediatly issued a warrent and helped her obtain an emergency order.
The police don't issue warrants - courts do. They may help her apply for a warrant (if this is how it works in your state) and an emergency order, but they do no issue arrest warrants. Maybe your state is one that allows a complaining party to "swear out" a warrant to a judge or magistrate - mine is not - but it is still not the police that issues it.

Sadly, the real victims get lost in the shuffle. But, in all the noise, the real victims get lost in the shuffle ... for every one real victim, there might be a dozen gamers. Unfortunately, that's 12 cases that distract from the limited resources available, so the ones that cannot be easily proven get lumped with the rest.

Besides, the area I live in hasn't so much as had a jay walker in recent years, hell the stations actually close at 5pm.
MOST stations throughout the country close at 5 PM. That doesn't mean that officers are not in the field, only that the lobby is closed. I have yet to work for ANY agency (and one was in a city of 500,000 people ... now nearly a million) that has a lobby open much after 5 PM.

The fact of the matter is that to fight crime, you first must find ways to prevent it. To simply ignore emails threatening to kill someone and then still do nothing when they have physically produced a weapon and threatened to harm you is just inexcusable.
Producing a weapon and threatening you is a crime - and I believe you said she is being charged for that crime.

And if we charged felony threats for every threatening e-mail or phone call, I know we'd have 1/2 of almost every angry couple in town locked up! This is why they are generally treated as misdemeanors unless coupled with the apparent (at the time) intent and present ability to carry out the act.

Sadly, if life is so dire for you, perhaps it IS time to move. While it may be seen by you as surrender, and you should not have to do it, what price do you put on peace of mind?

- Carl
 

Blindrift

Junior Member
I refuse to alter my life for her any further, gun or not. I'll make my stand and take my chances. Hopefully an arrest will be enough to subdue her.

Anyhow I have a question concerning procedure. The Phila police haven't issued a warrent yet for her arrest, but they assure me they will. They said they have to obtain a copy of her drivers license for me to ID her photo then a warrent can be requested. I'm not complaining, just curious, I never heard of that before, is it because she lives in a different state then the one she is being sought for arrest?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Blindrift said:
Anyhow I have a question concerning procedure. The Phila police haven't issued a warrent yet for her arrest, but they assure me they will. They said they have to obtain a copy of her drivers license for me to ID her photo then a warrent can be requested. I'm not complaining, just curious, I never heard of that before, is it because she lives in a different state then the one she is being sought for arrest?
One of the elements of a crime is identification. There are likely many people with names similar to hers, so they want to have some way to verify that the warrant is being issued for the correct person.

A guy in my town was once arrested on a warrant issued by the feds out of Iowa for firearms violations. They ran the name and took the guy with an address in my town because his physical description on the license was similar to that the witnesses provided. So, he gets arrested in spite of the fact he had never BEEN to Iowa! Before trial, the feds show his photo to the key witness and he says he doesn't know the guy (our resident). It turns out the guy they wanted with the same name but a different name on the middle initial was older and from Los Angeles. D'oh! The guy now has a wrongful arrest suit in process against the feds for failing to take reasonable steps to assert his identity. He lost his job and spent more than $30,000 to prove his innocence on something that could have been handled with a DMV photo to the key witness BEFORE the warrant was issued.

- Carl
 

Blindrift

Junior Member
Thanks Carl, you've been very informative, as has everyone. This forum has helped me figure alot out.

One last question though, the identification process does make sense, but my question is, can I offer the police a photo of her that I have to help speed the process up and get her off the street before she hurts someone (Namely me) or does it have to be a state issued photo?
 
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