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Questions on representing myself in court, help please.

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seriousbamaguy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Alabama.

Hi,

Story: I was at a friend's house drinking one night. I had 2 drinks. Police showed up telling people to leave. I informed an officer very politely that I was to stay the night because I had been drinking. He began cussing at me telling me if I didn't get the f*ck out of there he was going to arrest me. My friend grabbed me and said he'd give me a ride. 50 feet down the road, the officer tackled me from a dead sprint, causing several serious abrasions. On the police narrative, it said I was cussing at police, swinging my fists, yelling, and disturbing the neighbors; none of which is true. I have several witnesses that were sober that night and can testify to this.

My questions:

1. Is this a possible example of entrapment, considering the officer verbally forced me to leave then arrested me?

2. Are my witnesses credible considering they know me? If not, how do I prove their credibility in court?

3. Is a character witness really necessary for this case (I am a soon-to-be officer in the US Army and I have several officers that have instructed me over the years who can testify that I would never disrespect another human being, let alone an officer)?

4. Is the officer's word even going to be strong enough to prove his narrative to be true? Consider that to prove I am guilty, he would have to prove I was disturbing the neighbors. I wouldn't see how he could do this without the neighbors as witnesses.

5. Should I consider pursue a civil suit if I win the case?

Thanks in advance for all your legal advice!

-Dane

PS - For those who browse posts similar to this and say things like "you're guilty, you were drinking, there's no hope, grow up, etc." please spare me the time of reading and do not post.
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
1. Is this a possible example of entrapment, considering the officer verbally forced me to leave then arrested me?
NOpe.

2. Are my witnesses credible considering they know me? If not, how do I prove their credibility in court?

Nobody knows if they are credible. They may be biased however because they know you.

3. Is a character witness really necessary for this case (I am a soon-to-be officer in the US Army and I have several officers that have instructed me over the years who can testify that I would never disrespect another human being, let alone an officer)?
Not necessarily.


4. Is the officer's word even going to be strong enough to prove his narrative to be true? Consider that to prove I am guilty, he would have to prove I was disturbing the neighbors. I wouldn't see how he could do this without the neighbors as witnesses.
No an officer's word is not necessarily going to be strong enough to prove his narrative. I have proven military personnel to be lying on the stand even though they showed up in full dress uniform and swore to tell the truth.

5. Should I consider pursue a civil suit if I win the case?
For what?



PS - For those who browse posts similar to this and say things like "you're guilty, you were drinking, there's no hope, grow up, etc." please spare me the time of reading and do not post.
You posted in an open forum. You do not have the right to tell people whether or not they can post or what they can say when they post. Deal.
 

PhxGuy520

Member
Translation: Tell me I'm right, or don't post at all.

:rolleyes:
Really what I got from that is if you are going to make statements with no facts behind them don't bother. Maybe people come here for advice, and not judgement.

Some people act so high and mighty just becuase they have the information someone is searching for. Remember you had to seek out the same information at one time. So stop being an ass.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Deal with the criminal first. Civil is for after and, frankly, you are not going to get by summary judgment stage--even if we take your words to be true to the smallest detail.

The only thing(s) I see where you have some issue, is the process of arrest itself. If the police *ordered* you out of the house, in some circuts that would be the same as arresting you inside the house. I'm not going to go through all the ways the police can arrest you inside a home, but if the police were outside the house and ordered you and everyone out, it *may* have been an illegal arrest. If they were legitimately inside or there was an exigent circumstance, then you have nothing.

The amount of force used in the arrest would also have to be reasonable. With what the police story will be, I don't think you will find a jury to decide the amount of force used is unreasonable in this situation.

Get an attorney. When you start talking about all the things you are talking about needing in court, you are not going to be able to get them in without a lot of study in evidence. I don't know how the army takes having it's people getting arrested just before entry into the service, but I bet a conviction is sure to put a hitch in your get-a-long once you're there. Without an attorney you are going to be found guilty. With an attorney, you may be found guilty, but the prosecution may deal it down to something fairly minor.
 

seriousbamaguy

Junior Member
Deal with the criminal first. Civil is for after and, frankly, you are not going to get by summary judgment stage--even if we take your words to be true to the smallest detail.
Is summary judgment stage what I am facing right now?

The only thing(s) I see where you have some issue, is the process of arrest itself. If the police *ordered* you out of the house, in some circuts that would be the same as arresting you inside the house. I'm not going to go through all the ways the police can arrest you inside a home, but if the police were outside the house and ordered you and everyone out, it *may* have been an illegal arrest. If they were legitimately inside or there was an exigent circumstance, then you have nothing.
They were outside the house. They ordered everyone to leave.

Get an attorney. When you start talking about all the things you are talking about needing in court, you are not going to be able to get them in without a lot of study in evidence. I don't know how the army takes having it's people getting arrested just before entry into the service, but I bet a conviction is sure to put a hitch in your get-a-long once you're there. Without an attorney you are going to be found guilty. With an attorney, you may be found guilty, but the prosecution may deal it down to something fairly minor.
Could you elaborate a little more on the part of 'not being able to get them in without a lot of study evidence'? Do you mean I will not be able to use my witnesses? I spoke to a public defender at my last court date and she told me that the process would be very informal. I am guessing because I am very unfamiliar with legal terms as are most other people. She said I needed to bring my witnesses with me next time and we would all go up to the judge (with the police officer) and tell him the story. As far as Army goes, since this is the lowest class misdemeanor that I'm being charged with, it will affect the career very little, it at all, assuming I am found guilty.

Thanks again!
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Is summary judgment stage what I am facing right now?
No. That would be for any civil case you were to bring after a successful resolution of your criminal case.

They were outside the house. They ordered everyone to leave.
This could be significant although the circuts vary a bit. Generally a person cannot be arrested in a residence unless the police have a warrant or probable cause and exigent circumstances. I'm not going to try to figure out all the facts and won't respond if you bring more up, but if the police arrested you for actions taken before you left the house, the arrest may have been illegal. The police can *ask* you to leave and, if you do, they can arrest you. However, using a ruse is not allowed and many circuts (there is at least one recent one decided contrary) don't allow an order to leave as putting you in a public place voluntarilly. (Allowing mere probable cause to make a legal arrest.) The state may have varying rules as well. You will not be able to make this argument. You would need an attorney even if the facts were in your favor. Case law would need to be considered in the light of provable facts.

Could you elaborate a little more on the part of 'not being able to get them in without a lot of study evidence'? Do you mean I will not be able to use my witnesses?
What will you have your witnesses say? Getting statements regarding your character is not just asking them if you are a nice guy. Getting them to say what the police said is difficult to get into evidence. Can they say what they saw? Sure. But that is a long way from what the police perceived. Credibility will also be difficult for you to establish for them too.

I spoke to a public defender at my last court date and she told me that the process would be very informal. I am guessing because I am very unfamiliar with legal terms as are most other people. She said I needed to bring my witnesses with me next time and we would all go up to the judge (with the police officer) and tell him the story. As far as Army goes, since this is the lowest class misdemeanor that I'm being charged with, it will affect the career very little, it at all, assuming I am found guilty.
OK. Then there is little risk. By the way, what are you charged with? There are many possibilities based on your statements.
 

seriousbamaguy

Junior Member
What will you have your witnesses say? Getting statements regarding your character is not just asking them if you are a nice guy. Getting them to say what the police said is difficult to get into evidence. Can they say what they saw? Sure. But that is a long way from what the police perceived. Credibility will also be difficult for you to establish for them too.
I was going to have my witnesses say exactly what they saw, which is the complete opposite of the police narrative. I have another witness who heard the very same officer say he was going to arrest someone that night and it didn't matter who.


OK. Then there is little risk. By the way, what are you charged with? There are many possibilities based on your statements.
I am charged with Public Intoxication. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal, I'm sure. But, what the officer said in the narrative is false and I view that as an attack on my character; that is the main reason I am pursuing this.

Thanks,

Dane
 

Kane

Member
Public Intoxication is a class C misdemeanor in my state. I'm not going to look it up, but I assume PI is a fine-only offense in Ala, too. That means the worst that can happen is you'll have to pay a fine, if you're convicted. Which means there's really no reason not to represent yourself, if that's what you want to do. The only thing that's at stake is money, and hiring a lawyer's liable to cost as much as the fine, especially if you want to go to trial.

At some point the prosecutor is likely to make an offer. You'll want to consider whether there's any compromise you're willing to make, so you're prepared ahead of time.

There's also some chance the officer won't show, which means you'll - eventually - win the case without a trial. You may have to show up many times, though, before that happens.

A trial like yours is ultimately about credibility. The jury listens to both sides, and decides whom to believe.

Your story - honestly - doesn't sound all that credible. A cop makes a running tackle while you're walking away after he told you to leave... over a PI?

But if that's what happened, it's what happened. The truth will set you free.

I believe most jurors, if they believe you, will acquit you. Even in Alabama. :)
 

PhxGuy520

Member
Public Intoxication is a class C misdemeanor in my state. I'm not going to look it up, but I assume PI is a fine-only offense in Ala, too. That means the worst that can happen is you'll have to pay a fine, if you're convicted. Which means there's really no reason not to represent yourself, if that's what you want to do. The only thing that's at stake is money, and hiring a lawyer's liable to cost as much as the fine, especially if you want to go to trial.

At some point the prosecutor is likely to make an offer. You'll want to consider whether there's any compromise you're willing to make, so you're prepared ahead of time.

There's also some chance the officer won't show, which means you'll - eventually - win the case without a trial. You may have to show up many times, though, before that happens.

A trial like yours is ultimately about credibility. The jury listens to both sides, and decides whom to believe.

Your story - honestly - doesn't sound all that credible. A cop makes a running tackle while you're walking away after he told you to leave... over a PI?

But if that's what happened, it's what happened. The truth will set you free.

I believe most jurors, if they believe you, will acquit you. Even in Alabama. :)
How many times a day do we have a read a crooked cop story before they lose some credibility?
 

Bretagne

Member
If you're charged with an offense for which you can't be sent to jail (a fine-only misdemenaor) then you might not have a right to a jury trial. If given the option, choose the jury trial.

Also, when this is all over you should file a complaint on the arresting officer. Contac the department for which he works and inquire as to how to go about filing a formal complaint
 

Kane

Member
How many times a day do we have a read a crooked cop story before they lose some credibility?
I tend to assume that cops are like most other people; they want to do their jobs, and go home at the end of the day.

In the OP's version of the story, the cop appears to be irrational. He doesn't seem to have any reason for doing what he did. All he gets out of it is a bunch of paperwork, and decent chance at a dislocated shoulder or a painful face-to-pavement moment during his flying tackle.

I realize some people think that cops are evil, and out to get you, and that's enough to explain anything they do. But it's a relatively small group of people who think that way, and mostly they don't show up for jury duty.
 

Bretagne

Member
Kane ...and mostly they don't show up for jury duty.
;) Too true, Kane. But you're always going to have a better shot with a jury than a judge, hands down.

When an officer of the law does something wrong in a moral sense, or lets people down with their unprofessionalism, people get shocked and appalled because we expect better from those wearing the badge. We expect them to be super-human. We expect that badge to be a sign of honor that transcends our human nature.

Sure there are bad cops. There are dirty, stinking, rotten cops. Just like there are bad lawyers, bad judges and yes, bad presidents. Bad people do bad things, and human nature dictates that we are all sinners, and all make mistakes.

Of course we should expect better from those in uniform. But we need to be cognizant that cops are people too.
 

seriousbamaguy

Junior Member
If you're charged with an offense for which you can't be sent to jail (a fine-only misdemenaor) then you might not have a right to a jury trial. If given the option, choose the jury trial.

Also, when this is all over you should file a complaint on the arresting officer. Contac the department for which he works and inquire as to how to go about filing a formal complaint
Yes it is a fine-only misdemeanor. I don't ever remember hearing anything of an option for a jury, though.

I definately plan to file a complaint. I believe it has to be done within 6 months of the incident.
 

seriousbamaguy

Junior Member
;) Too true, Kane. But you're always going to have a better shot with a jury than a judge, hands down.

When an officer of the law does something wrong in a moral sense, or lets people down with their unprofessionalism, people get shocked and appalled because we expect better from those wearing the badge. We expect them to be super-human. We expect that badge to be a sign of honor that transcends our human nature.

Sure there are bad cops. There are dirty, stinking, rotten cops. Just like there are bad lawyers, bad judges and yes, bad presidents. Bad people do bad things, and human nature dictates that we are all sinners, and all make mistakes.

Of course we should expect better from those in uniform. But we need to be cognizant that cops are people too.
I agree with you completely. I know that an Army officer undergoes a very large amount of training before he is given the responsibility of one. However, from what I've heard from others, police officers do not require education beyond high school and have something like a 6 week bootcamp to become one. I don't know if that is completely true or not, but, if it is I can see where there might be an issue with an officer's ability to make morally and ethically right decisions.

Just because someone is told to make these kinds of decisions doesn't mean they will right away; sometimes it takes time and mentorship, and I don't know if that is always available in law enforcement. From my experience, it is essential to the military.
 

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