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nottosmart

Junior Member
Name of my state is Wisconsin.

Some may know of my post before, and it got some pretty bad remarks, but to make a long story short, I got a DUI Second Offense... BAC: 0.16

Anyway, my question is this:

I finally received some of the information I requested through the demand for discovery. Some of the stuff that I "specifically" asked for was not given to me, such as:

1: the Calibration reports of the officers squad car
2: the repair history of the squad car within the past 12 months
as well as some other things (sorry, I don't have the form in front of me right now)

Can any of this be used in court if I haven't received it?

Anyway, along with the discovery, I received the video from the police car.

I was stopped for speeding, the officer "estimated" my speed to be 40 MPH and in his report, he stated that he was headed northbound when he observed my car speeding and did a u-turn to pace me, but was unable to get me on radar. While behind me, he again "estimated" my speed to be 40 MPH but added that I was still accelerating until he caught up with me. And that he had the entire DUI stop on video.

Now, upon viewing the video several times, and knowing the distance that was traveled, it is impossible for me to have been traveling 40 MPH. I have done the math, and it does not add up, nor does his "estimation nagree with the police video.

On the police video, it shows his speed, his maximum speed reached was 39 MPH. Looking at the video, I will say that visually, it indeed looks as if I am traveling at a high rate of speed, until you notice his speed... 4-6 MPH. Once I am about 450-550 FT away from him, he starts to accelerate, once his speedometer reaches 30 MPH, you can plainly see that he is gaining on me at a somewhat slow rate, but nonetheless he is gaining on me. At 35 MPH, the gap is closing incredibly fast, he then hits 39 MPH and while I am approximately 8-12 car lengths away from him, he activates his emergency lights. and the chase concludes.

Based on mathmatical equations and the police video, the fastest I was traveling at any given moment was 31 MPH in a 25 MPH speed limit. Is 6 MPH over the limit reasonable cause to pull someone over?

The entire police video does not contain all the information that the officer says in his report. For instance, the video does not start until he is directly behind me at a Stop Light.

Anywa, my main question here is since I have a Jury Trial schedualed, do I file a Motion to Supress Evidence because the stop was unconstitutional? Or do I fight the cause in court in front of the Jury?

Needless to say, I was not given a ticket for speeding, only for the DUI.

I have gone over the tape several times to make sure I was seeing and doing the math correctly based on the speed that I was accused of doing.

-Also, I was reading an article from another state (don't remember which state), but they had said that if you request the "source code" for the blood test analysis machine, that they will not give you the source code due to it being a trade secret, and since the machine is what is accusing you of being over the limit, that you can get the blood test results thrown out of court, since you can not face your accuser directly which is a constitutional right. Is this true or possible, or is this just a bunch of nonsense? Cause to me it sounds like BS, but would be pretty cool if it was true...
 


nottosmart

Junior Member
I would love to get an attorney, problem is, I am one of those unfortunate people that lives paycheck to paycheck and no extra money. Not the best of credit, so a loan is out of the equation as well... those retainer fees are what hurt...

I had read that any attorney that charges less than $2500 for a retainer for a 2nd dui offense is one that will hardly work on your case... that leaves me with the ones that are asking for the $5000 retainer... not sure about most people, but I can not come up with that kind of money...

I make too much money for a court appointed attorney, I make too much for a Public Defender, and I do not make enough to hire one... see the problem I am in...

So yes, although I may sound like I am foolish, I am doing what I feel I need to do... I have been doing a lot of reading on the laws and supreme court cases in wisconsin as well as a bunch of other research... but yes, I will admit... I don't know the half of it. But I am forced to do this on my own...

Thank you for your suggestions and your thoughts... and don't worry, I don't take what you said personally... if that one line was all you had to say, then I wouldn't give you the time of day, but it is because of the other stuff you have said.

And based on the evidence that I currently have, my only fight right now is to fight the initial stop to get everything else supressed. Maybe I can find a good attorney that will work with me if he thinks I have a strong enough case with the initial stop.

thank you again for your advice and information.
 

garrula lingua

Senior Member
The atty's fee is not a good gauge of how good an atty s/he is.

Many reasonably-priced attys are better litigators - they just don't advertise or market themselves well & stink at rain-making.
You have to interview the person well, or go to court and see them at trial (some unlikely attys shine before a jury).
 

nottosmart

Junior Member
Thats a good point as well... like I said on that aspect is what I have heard.

Either way though, unless an attorney would accept a $500 or less retainer and allow me to make payments for the rest including any additional costs, I am SOL as far as getting an attorney.

So I am trying to learn as much as I can because I have a really bad feeling I am on my own on this one.

Based on the speed though, since I do have proof on that aspect:

.25 miles was the distance traveled and the "chase" lasted 30 seconds.

so we get the following:

31 MPH * 5280 feet per mile = 163,680 feet = 45.46 ft/s
1 hour * 3600 seconds per hour = 3600 seconds

45.46 ft/s * 30 seconds = 1363.8

1363.8^5280 = .258 miles traveled at 31 MPH

for 30 MPH the total comes to exactly 2.5 miles in 30 seconds.

Would this be good proof? Or is this just begging? Would speeding 5-6 MPH over the speed limit be reasonable cause to pull someone over?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Yes, 5-6 MPH over the limit is reasonable cause to pull someone over. The speed limit signs don't say: "25 to 31 MPH", they say, "25" (or whatever speed it is). In theory, one could stop you for ONE MPH over the limit.

I agree that your only chance is to challenge the stop, but this is a heck of a shot in the dark, and unless you bring in an expert (more money) to make the mathematical calculations, your "formula" or equations are not likely to get in to court. YOU cannot testify to this sort of information, though you can present witnesses to do so and you can cross examine the prosecution witnesses regarding speeds and such.



- Carl
 

moburkes

Senior Member
I'm not a police officer, but I agree with the rest that you will have a hard time convincing ANYONE that the stop was unconstitutional.
 

nottosmart

Junior Member
I agree that your only chance is to challenge the stop, but this is a heck of a shot in the dark, and unless you bring in an expert (more money) to make the mathematical calculations, your "formula" or equations are not likely to get in to court. YOU cannot testify to this sort of information, though you can present witnesses to do so and you can cross examine the prosecution witnesses regarding speeds and such.
- Carl
Thank you for your reply.

On with needing an expert. I do not see why I would not be able to testify to the mathmatical equation. It is simply made and is accurate.

The formula is the following:

Miles Per Hour * Feet Per Mile = Feet Per Second * Seconds Traveled
Minutes Per Hour * Seconds Per Hour = Seconds per hour

And this would equal Feet Traveled Per/Second, then you divide that answer by the total number of feet in a mile to conclude that total distance traveled.

I am not an expert in math, but this is a very simplistic but accurate method.


And, I am not trying to come out as being arguemenative here, I am just trying to understand the court system a little better. As I said, I would love to get a lawyer, but sadly, that honestly doesn't look like it is going to be an option.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Yes, but the prosecution will object to your testifying unless you are also taking the stand as the witness to be cross examined. You cannot just make a statement and expect it not to be challenged. Playing defense attorney means you present witnesses and evidence - it does NOT mean you can throw papers at the court. No document is evidence without proper foundation, and unless the prosecution stipluates to the accuracy of your equations, they will not be admitted without foundation. Even if it were, by your calculations you were STILL exceeding the limit by at least 5-6 MPH - sufficient to justify a stop.

For instance: What is the coefficient of friction on the roadway in question? How did you determine the distances? What is the basis for your calculation? ... i.e. your knowledge, training and experience to make this estimate of speed and acceleration.

If you take the stand in your own defense, you may have to answer questions regarding your own sobriety and you would not then be able to plead the 5th.

I hate to rain on your parade, but I have yet to see a 'pro per' defendant win a DUI case. The last guy that tried it here was convicted the same day of the trial - the jury was out for 20 minutes, and during the trial the judge was practically begging the guy to get an attorney.

Sit in on a few trials to see what happens before you think to try it yourself.

- Carl
 

nottosmart

Junior Member
Thank you CdwJava for your replies. I appreciate everything you have told me thus far.

I do plan on talking to an attorney on Tuesday since this is memorial day weekend. And see what they say or suggest and if they are able to help me in any way shape or form.

The overall money isn't the problem as long as I can make payment arrangements, but if they need that retainer, like I said, I am SOL on that.
 

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