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What does the Law say regarding Fights / Assault; Fists as Deadly Weapons?

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What is the name of your state? NV

If a fight occurs does it matter who started it or are both parties guilty of assault?

If just the starter of a fight is guilty of assault, then who is the starter: the one who spoke the first ill words or the one who touches the other first? Does the first push constitute the start of a fight or is the first one who throws a punch the starter?

If a fight is started against me, i.e. the other guy pushes me, do I have a right then to defend myself with fists?

I have recieved a black belt in Shaolin Kung Fu. I heard from a few different people (not my teachers) that if you have a black belt in a martial art you are required to register your fists as deadly weapons. Is this just a urban legend or an actual law? If it's true where would you register? How would anyone know I have a black belt?

I am living in a very hostile situation right now. I have never been in a fight before, but feel that one might be coming soon. Any advice?
 
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outonbail

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? NV

If a fight occurs does it matter who started it or are both parties guilty of assault?

If just the starter of a fight is guilty of assault, then who is the starter: the one who spoke the first ill words or the one who touches the other first? Does the first push constitute the start of a fight or is the first one who throws a punch the starter?

If a fight is started against me, i.e. the other guy pushes me, do I have a right then to defend myself with fists?

I have recieved a black belt in Shaolin Kung Fu. I heard from a few different people (not my teachers) that if you have a black belt in a martial art you are required to register your fists as deadly weapons. Is this just a urban legend or an actual law? If it's true where would you register? How would anyone know I have a black belt?

I am living in a very hostile situation right now. I have never been in a fight before, but feel that one might be coming soon. Any advice?What is the name of your state?
LOL, you don't have to register you're fists as deadly weapons. I would thing anyone who was truly a black belt would know this. However, you do have to realize that you're training can cost you considerably in civil court, should you use you're skill to do harm to anyone, because you are aware of or should be aware of the consequences that you're actions will produce.
Being a black belt, you should be able to avoid being hurt and make the person trying to assault you aware of the fact that you know what you are doing without having to hurt them, or at least not hurting them by causing an injury that requires medical attention.
Many years ago I made the foolish mistake of trying to get physical with a person who held a black belt. It didn't take me but a second or two to realize that I bit off more than I could hope to chew. The only thing I wanted upon this realization, was to get away from the person who was about to give me the lesson I deserved. Fortunately for me, this person let me leave with my tail between my legs, but at least it was not bleeding. You should be capable of doing the same.

No, you are not allowed to hit someone who pushes you. Yes they have assaulted you by pushing you but to react by punching them is not defending yourself, it is escalating the situation and you are then guilty of assault as well.

The best way to handle the situation is remove yourself from it. If the threat is something that can not be avoided then file a restraining order against the person making the threat. But to plan what damage you can do in return to his/her advances, can only lead to you're being arrested for assault.

You can defend yourself to the point of removing the immediate threat of harm against you. Being a black belt would tell me that someone would have to be doing allot more than pushing you for you to be in fear of your immediate safety.

One way I look at it, is when you're acting out of actual fear for you're life and safety, you're probably OK. But the minute you're acting out of anger or revenge or to even the score, you've gone too far.

Get away from the situation! Don't plan you're counter attack, as this is what you're post reads like you're actually doing.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Retaliation is not self defense.

"He hit me first" isn't an affirmative defense once you are older than nine or so.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Retaliation is not self defense.

"He hit me first" isn't an affirmative defense once you are older than nine or so.
I always thought the "He hit me first" was good until about twelve,,, with the "He asked for it" running it's course by nine?
 
My grandpa is an ex-homicide detective of the San Francisco police department, he was the one who told me that if the other person touches you, you're free to do what you want with them. I guess things must have been different back then.

I'm a very peaceful person, but there is also such a thing that if you don't stand your ground, people think they can walk all over you.

Thanks for the advice.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
My grandpa is an ex-homicide detective of the San Francisco police department, he was the one who told me that if the other person touches you, you're free to do what you want with them. I guess things must have been different back then.

I'm a very peaceful person, but there is also such a thing that if you don't stand your ground, people think they can walk all over you.

Thanks for the advice.
So under grandpa's reasoning, if someone came behind me and pulled my hair, I can pull out a gun and shoot them dead...:eek:

Interesting.

Next time someone steps on my toe at the grocery store, they better watch out. I'm going for blood.:D
 

outonbail

Senior Member
My grandpa is an ex-homicide detective of the San Francisco police department, he was the one who told me that if the other person touches you, you're free to do what you want with them. I guess things must have been different back then.
Well if you're a detective with the San Francisco police, or just about any other agency, you can get away with just about anything that isn't on video tape. (Other members may not agree with this, but you get the point)


I'm a very peaceful person, but there is also such a thing that if you don't stand your ground, people think they can walk all over you.
Define what ground you're standing.
You see, it is obvious from you're post that you are having a problem with a particular individual(s). Maybe a girlfriend's ex, a neighbor from hell, the guy who takes you're parking place, whatever. You do not sound like you are trying to distance yourself from the problem, you sound like you are planning you're strategy for the showdown. This will most likely land you in legal trouble.
Medical treatment is expensive. If some guy pushes you and you clock him, you may each be arrested for assault and each be found guilty and have to pay the cost associated with the criminal case. Bail, attorney fees, fines etc. Then you would have the potential for civil damages, as would the other party. So he would have to pay for you're torn $10.00 shirt and you would have to pay for his $9,000.00 broken nose. Do you really feel like drilling this guy is worth the price you may have to pay for doing so?
To me, it is a lost cause either way. If you get you're a$$ kicked, you lose. If you kick his a$$, it costs you a ton financially. There is no winner and the only way to ensure you don't lose, is to avoid a physical confrontation.
Also, chances are, that if he isn't worried about the repercussions of getting into a physical altercation, he doesn't have a pot to pee in. So if he happens to do damages unto you, you'll never see a dime. People who own homes, have nice cars, like to travel etc., don't usually conduct themselves in a manner which jeopardizes the things they work hard for. But hey, if you don't have anything and don't plan on having anything you don't want to lose, or have a lien attached to, or you're pay garnished, screw it, knock the guy out!
 
T

tnr1983

Guest
Retaliation is not self defense.

"He hit me first" isn't an affirmative defense once you are older than nine or so.
Retaliation is self defense. And if you both faught you will both go to jail. Then you might pay a fine to the state. And then you could sue eachother outside of court but it wouldn't be smart because you wouldn't make anything off of it because you would both have to pay eachother. So fight. Take up for yourself and then suck it up and go to jail atleast they are going with you. You will be out in a day or two. No biggie.
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
Retaliation is self defense. And if you both faught you will both go to jail. Then you might pay a fine to the state. And then you could sue eachother outside of court but it wouldn't be smart because you wouldn't make anything off of it because you would both have to pay eachother. So fight. Take up for yourself and then suck it up and go to jail atleast they are going with you. You will be out in a day or two. No biggie.
Do you know anything about any area of the law? From your posts, it's pretty obvious that you don't. Why don't you go play on the highway?
 

>Charlotte<

Lurker
tnr1983 got her ass handed to her in her own thread, so now she is obviously trolling the boards trying to get a rise out of everyone. We've all seen it before; emotional infants who entertain themselves by doing whatever the cyber-equivalent is of sticking their finger in their ears and going "nyah nyah nyah".

She will continue to post inflammatory garbage until she loses interest or until she realizes that, as a "mother", she probably has more important things she should be doing.

Don't take the bait.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
Retaliation is self defense.
Obviously you have no clue how to use a dictionary. "Retaliation" is not a synonym for self defense. Retaliation is an offense, an assault, a premeditated, planned out action that you will have no legal defense for committing. It's an action common among immature, petty little simpletons who have nothing to lose. It provides them a sense of artificial superiority for a short time then encourages paranoid behavior and finger pointing. Takes no real thought process to accomplish, only a lacking control over one's emotions.

And if you both faught you will both go to jail.
What is the maximum jail sentence and fine for a "Faught" these days?
Then you might pay a fine to the state.
Only if the court orders it, otherwise I consider it a waste of good money.
And then you could sue eachother outside of court but it wouldn't be smart because you wouldn't make anything off of it because you would both have to pay eachother.
True, trying to sue someone outside of court is a waste of time. Hell, it doesn't always pay to do it in court with the help of an attorney and a judge to decide you're case.
So fight. Take up for yourself and then suck it up and go to jail atleast they are going with you. You will be out in a day or two. No biggie.
Spoken like a true member of the "nothing to lose" fraternity of trailer park trash. They always have a couple of free days available for the jail experience. It's almost as if they enjoy bending over for cavity searches and brushing up on their game of dominoes!
 
Thought you guys might like this one. Another guy told me today confidently that yes you do have to register if you're a black belt and that since you're a martial artist you have to take 3 hits before you can fight back. I don't know where people come up with this stuff.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
I thought a belt was only good for holding up one's pants.
Well there other reasons for wearing one. My father always wore one just for me!

I can attest to the fact that it saw more use as an attitude adjustment tool which would fix my a$$, than it did as a pants position retainer for him,,,,:eek:
 

CDR Benson USN

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? NV

If a fight occurs does it matter who started it or are both parties guilty of assault?

If just the starter of a fight is guilty of assault, then who is the starter: the one who spoke the first ill words or the one who touches the other first? Does the first push constitute the start of a fight or is the first one who throws a punch the starter?

If a fight is started against me, i.e. the other guy pushes me, do I have a right then to defend myself with fists?

I have recieved a black belt in Shaolin Kung Fu. I heard from a few different people (not my teachers) that if you have a black belt in a martial art you are required to register your fists as deadly weapons. Is this just a urban legend or an actual law? If it's true where would you register? How would anyone know I have a black belt?

I am living in a very hostile situation right now. I have never been in a fight before, but feel that one might be coming soon. Any advice?

OutonBail offers very sound advice.

The law presupposes that people can resolve minor differences on their own. That's why there are no laws against insulting someone or arguing with someone (not in public) or against basic harrassment. If, one Sunday afternoon, your neighbour decides to mow the side of his lawn nearest your house at the same time you have settled down to watch "the Big Game" on television, and the mower's noise interferes with your viewing pleasure, the law expects the two of you to work out a peaceable solution between yourselves. Otherwise, the citizenry would be "micro-managed" to death with thousands of nit-picking laws.

The law also has an expectation that people with employ a modicum of common sense in dealing with situations.

There is one final consideration that applies to your situation. That is that you have a "duty to retreat". In other words, if you can extricate yourself from your situation and leave without inviting more harm to yourself, then you must do so.

As OutonBail pointed out, a holder of a black belt will almost certainly know in very quick time if an aggressor poses a genuine physical threat to one of his skill. And in most cases, the aggressor won't. Therefore, the onus is on you to respond to the situation responsibly and that response must be proportionate. A simple shove doesn't justify you responding by wailing the tar out of the aggressor. Suppose the aggressor attempts to shove you again, then you can respond with an open-hand technique, such as a simple hold or parry. And if the aggressor "brings it on", you can certainly use your skills to defend yourself until you can safely extract yourself from the situation.

Here again, even in this kind of situation, you just can't keep swinging for the fence. You must cease your attack the instant your opponent ceases his hostile action or as soon as he is no longer capable of doing so. If you are a martial-arts expert, the law is going to look at this very closely--because it presumes that you are more capable than the average man of defending yourself and of knowing when the aggressor no longer poses a threat.

In other words, in instances of physical assaults, all men are not created equal for purposes of the justification of self-defence. The more capable a person is--by dint of his size and physical conditioning, his experience, his knowledge of fighting skills, available weaponry--the more responsible he is held for ensuring his response to attack is proportionate. The law allows greater latitude to persons who are smaller, weaker, or unskilled when facing an aggressor in that they might have to resort to a higher level of force. By the same token, it will see someone like yourself, who is skilled and experienced in physical defence, as being able to handle a conflict with just the right amount of force needed to stop the aggression.

In the scenarios you present, there are dozen different factors the police and, if it got that far, the D.A. would have to consider before deciding if legal action should be taken against you. This is why no-one can give you a pat "if your opponent does 'A', you can do 'B'" response.

And, again, as OutonBail pointed out, in a one-on-one confrontation, you are almost certainly going to have the superior skills; therefore, the onus is on you.

Just a couple of quick final points:

1. Verbal insults or abuse or even racial slurs are never a justification for a physical assault in response. There is no "defending my/his/her honour" defence.

2. As you have gathered by now, you are not required to register your hands as deadly weapons. This is not unusual, if you think about it for a moment. The law defines a "deadly weapon" as any instrument which can kill. This includes not only weapons which are intended to do harm like a gun or knife, but also axes, rocks, clubs, baseball bats, hammers, monkey wrenches, automobiles, or any object which actually causes death, or if it is used in manner calculated to cause death. Yet none of these, except firearms, have to be registered as "deadly weapons".

Bottom line: if someone wants to pick a fight with you, you're going to have to be "the adult".


Commander Benson
 
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