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Victim of Illegal Search and Seizure?

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stickysituation

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? CALIFORNIA

Hi,
As a juvenile, my son was detained and accused of being involved with an assault with a deadly weapon. He was not at the scene of the crime but his friends were. His friends were also detained (I believe SEVEN of them) and some were allegedly associated with gang members deeming the incident itself gang-related. The victim had known this gang from school and apparently thought my son was involved, being that my son hung out with some of them, on campus. The boys were not arrested until months after the crime. We took his case to trial and the victim admitted my son was not involved with the incident and that he had mistaken my son's identity for someone else's. The victim's girlfriend had also stated that she saw everything and that my son was not a perpetrator. The other boys were found guilty and if i recall correctly, had not fought their case at all, except another boy who was acquitted of charges. My son was sent to a boot camp based on the fact the judge thought the victim was a "hostile witness" and felt his life was in danger if he had testified against my son and also because my son could not remember what he was doing so-and-so months ago at X:XX time. With no jury, the judge had judged my son wrongfully. This was 5-6 years ago.

My son, now 23, was on his way home when he was pulled over by the police. The officer pulled my son over based on the fact that he had recognized my son from the juvenile case years ago. He asked my son to step out of the car and my son refused to. The officer felt my son was hiding something and insisted that he stepped out again. My son then stepped out and was patted down when a loaded pistol was found on his waist band. When I asked why he had the pistol he replied that he wanted to keep one ever since my nephew was murdered last year (which is still an unsolved murder case):(. He is now in county jail with possession of a concealed weapon charge, possession of CCW as an ex-felon, and Possession of a loaded CCW.

I agree that my son should not be wielding a pistol, but in the case of my son's, wasn't the search that was conducted, a violation of his rights?? He has not been on probation since boot camp and has a semester left before transferring to a University. He has been working with my husband full-time and part-time for the past 3 years. He has been an outstanding student and always was before his juvenile incarceration. Also, to my understanding, my son is not an ex-felon as one of the charges implies he is. Aren't juvenile cases determined to be given a "True Finding" instead of being convicted as a felon?? We are thinking about hiring him a lawyer but I do not know what a lawyer can do for us. What should we do?? I was told to wait until his first court date to see if he could somehow have his bail lowered to bail him out. Now I DO NOT condone my son branding a pistol but I don't believe my son is a gang member as the policeman accused my son of being and quite frankly, I do not want to see my boy in jail with the "big boys." He just has too much going for him! My son has not had any run-ins with the laws ever since his release from boot camp except for a marijuana ticket that he was fined for. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated right now as I am very worried for him.:(Thanks in advance.

Kristy
 
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The Occultist

Senior Member
Whether or not the search was valid will depend on how well the officer can articulate the need for the search. Your son's refusal to step out of the car was a pretty big no-no, and officer's are typically allowed a Terry pat. My guess is you will not be able to suppress the search, but any hope of such will absolutely require the help of an attorney experienced at such.
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
OH! And let the 23 year old man hire his own attorney, all you are doing is making excuses and enabeling your adult child.

I honestly don't know who has more of a problem, you or him.
 

stickysituation

Junior Member
OH! And let the 23 year old man hire his own attorney, all you are doing is making excuses and enabeling your adult child.

I honestly don't know who has more of a problem, you or him.
HELLO my son is a full-time student and working with my husband is not a gold mine but it gets him by in school and whatever else he may need. If he had the money I would still be the one paying for his lawyer as I feel it is my responsibility for now because A) I can and B) he is still in college and should not have to focus on acquiring a large sum of money at the moment. And are you suggesting that the policeman had every right to go out of his way and pull over someone who was not in violation of any traffic laws for what was probably his own entertainment? True, he may have found a gun, but what is the world coming to when men with badges feel they can play GOD and pull anyone over at their own discretion to conduct searches on someone they "recognize??":mad: You say all I am doing is making excuses but what have I said to deny that my son did not have the pistol with him?? I agree he should not have one but how do you justify incarcerating someone who hasn't done anything to harm anyone and never will? My son was deeply scarred by the loss of his cousin; it was hard for him to deal with his close 18-year old cousins death at 21.. He is my son and I want what is best for him and I KNOW that jail will not make his life any better. He is a good kid. You don't have to believe me but if you don't want to give any helpful suggestions then PLEASE just do not respond.:(

Kristy
 
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The Occultist

Senior Member
HELLO my son is a full-time student and working with my husband is not a gold mine but it gets him by in school and whatever else he may need. If he had the money I would still be the one paying for his lawyer as I feel it is my responsibility for now because A) I can and B) he is still in college and should not have to focus on acquiring a large sum of money at the moment. And are you suggesting that the policeman had every right to go out of his way and pull over someone who was not in violation of any traffic laws for what was probably his own entertainment? True, he may have found a gun, but what is the world coming to when men with badges feel they can play GOD and pull anyone over at their own discretion to conduct searches on someone they "recognize??":mad: You say all I am doing is making excuses but what have I said to deny that my son did not have the pistol with him?? I agree he should not have one but how do you justify incarcerating someone who hasn't done anything to harm anyone and never will? My son was deeply scarred by the loss of his cousin; it was hard for him to deal with his close 18-year old cousins death at 21.. He is my son and I want what is best for him and I KNOW that jail will not make his life any better. He is a good kid. You don't have to believe me but if you don't want to give any helpful suggestions then PLEASE just do not respond.:(

Kristy
So...how do you know that that's the reason your son was pulled over? Is that what's stated in the police report? My guess is the report will differ slightly from the version your son told you. I think it's nice that your son has the type of mom that will see no ill of him, but being pulled over for having been recognized as being involved in a case that occurred, I'm guessing, at least 5 years ago just really doesn't make any sense. Sorry, but I don't believe it.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
For a number of reasons, once legally stopped, it is highly likely the officer could pat your son down for weapons. It is not a true "search" and would require reasonable suspicion at a very low level--part of which could be had by the prior association/knowledge of your son.

The real question relates to the stop in the first place. You have shown no facts to indicate a reason, but you may not know the reason either. Here is where the true question lies.
 

stickysituation

Junior Member
I do not have any information except for what my son has told me. From what I interpreted, the policeman was very persistent with labelling my son a gang member and consistently implied that he was gang-related because of the gang-related incident my son was accused of 5 years ago. Because of this, my husband has decided to hire an attorney and we will be appearing in court today for his arraignment hearing as we too, agree that it just doesn't make sense. Hopefully, we will find out more information today and I will post with more details when I can. Thank you all for your replies so far, they are greatly appreciated. Have a good day,

Kristy
 
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stickysituation

Junior Member
Yes, I'm sorry I am wrong his court hearing is not today I just found out I misinterpreted my husband as court is on Monday and we will be meeting with an attorney who I assume will be visiting our son to discuss things tonight. Will keep you all up to date when I can.

Kristy
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Minimal cause is needed to conduct a pat-down a subject for weapons. if the officer had even minimal articulable cause to be concerned the driver was armed, he had every lawful right to ask the driver to step out and pat him down for weapons. If the officer's belief was reasonable - even if erroneous - then the search will likely be entirely lawful.

If the officer has not run into your son since his juvenile days, he likely has no idea where he's been ... for all he knows, the lad was in prison or kicking it elsewhere. If the officer's past contact was one that he or she believed to be gang-related, then he has every reason to believe that the subject might still be involved in gang activity ... and since gang members and their pals carry weapons, a pat-down was reasonable. The problem your son is going to have is that he WAS carrying a handgun! Obviously, the officer's suspicions were well-founded.

I can name two friends of mine who were KILLED in a situation like this. So any officer who does NOT pat-down a subject he believes to be a gang associate is a fool.

- Carl
 

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