Mother left no will

I'm in California. My mother passed recently and of her 4 bank accounts and investments my sister and i have only been able to inherit 3 of them. They had us listed as beneficiaries. But the 4th, a mutual fund has no one listed and they say we have to go to probate. Not having the money for this, and the fund being somewhat low $ anyways, we were hoping there would be a do it yourself method. If so, how would we go about this? Thank you.

Go and talk to the clerk at the probate court. You should be able to fill out the forms yourself.

If the value of the fund is low enough (under 100k) you may be able to avoid the court entirely and use a "small estates affidavit" to convince the fund to give you and your sister the proceeds. Look at Probate Code Section 13100 and following for more details. The fund may have its own form for you to use.

Agree - what you will need to do depends on the amt. of the mutual fund. What is the amount of the fund?

Great, that sounds much better...thanks ! the amount is $28k, but she also had 2 bank accounts and an annuity that combined are well over 100k. Will that count or is it the amount of the fund by itself? And does anyone know what form i need? Theres a page in the link below that has various forms under "probate" in the drop down field, but i have no idea which to use.
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/forms.cgi

Ok, i have been looking into this and read the code. But i still cannot figure out exactly what i need to do. I cannot for one thing determine whether the code applies to my situation where there is no will or anything other than my relationship to her as her son. Where do i get the form, is it for my situation as described above, and who do i give it to? I have searched for self help by calling the courts and been sent from one phone number to another over and over again and fiinally just gave up. I'm just lost here. Any detailed suggestions? Thanks.

oczad said:

Ok, i have been looking into this and read the code. But i still cannot figure out exactly what i need to do. I cannot for one thing determine whether the code applies to my situation where there is no will or anything other than my relationship to her as her son. Where do i get the form, is it for my situation as described above, and who do i give it to? I have searched for self help by calling the courts and been sent from one phone number to another over and over again and fiinally just gave up. I'm just lost here. Any detailed suggestions? Thanks.

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This is not some tiny estate where a lawyer will eat up an enourmous fraction of the estate.

The accounts will need to go thru probate.

You admit you are not able to follow the procedure alone. They are complex. That is why a lawyer is a sound move.

Why are you reluctant to consult with a lawyer? You'll feel better when you do.

Were you and your sister able to clear title to the other 2 bank accounts and annuity? If so, how?

tecate said:

Were you and your sister able to clear title to the other 2 bank accounts and annuity? If so, how?

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Yes, because we were listed as beneficiaries.

as to the idea in a above post about using an affidavit, i found this form that seems like what i need. It is titled "declaration pursuant to California probate code sections 13100-13115. I assume i would fill it out and send it to the holder of the fund and that it will be at their digression as to whether they release it.

Problem is, the form seems to assume there is only one person who is filing. But at the bottom there is a "note" that says "if more than one declarant is entitled to recieve the described property, all should join in executing the declaration and the allegations should be modified to reflect the plural". I would think if there were a different form for use when there are more than 1 declarant they would have mentioned it. Instead they say to "modify" it to reflect the plural. How would i do that?

What did the fund say when you spoke with them? Do they have a form for you to use, or will they accept the generic form you apparently have?

tecate said:

What did the fund say when you spoke with them? Do they have a form for you to use, or will they accept the generic form you apparently have?

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I didn't even talk to them about using an affidavit. However, after my last post i went to the bank that holds her annuity to ask some questions about that, and in passing i mentioned the mutual fund. Like you guys here told me, he said just to use a small estate affidavit and i don't have to worry about doing probate. He also said that i can list myself and not even mention my sister. He said that doing so would not cause me any legal problem since she is allowing me to take the funds and would say so if it came up legally. I'm going back to the bank today and he is going to help me write the letter i need to accompany the affidavit. Got my fingers crossed he knows what he's doing ! By the way, as i think i said, i had called the fund and they told me i'd have to go to probate. He called them as i sat there and listened to him suggest the affidavit and asked a question about doing that. They went along with it as tho it's the proper way after having told ME i'd have to probate it !!! Is this because he knows how to speak to them and i haven't a clue about this stuff, or maybe the person i talked to was trying to make things as hard as possible for me since i sounded clueless and figured they could keep the fund going longer by making things impossible for me? In any case, i think this is going to be a lot easier than i first thought ! Thanks for the advice all.

OK, the plot thickens......i called the mutual fund again and told them how the law in the probate code says that if i meet all requirements, and i do, that this is what i legally need to procure the fund.....

*A certified copy of the decedent's death certificate.

*Evidence of ownership: In certain situations, if the decedent had evidence of
ownership of the property described in the affidavit, it must be attached to the
affidavit, if available. Otherwise, the holder of the property may be permitted to
require that the successor of the decedent furnish an indemnification bond or
undertaking as a condition to the transfer of the property.

*Copy of consent: If a probate of the decedent’s estate is pending and the
decedent's personal representative consented to the transfer of the property, a
copy of the consent and the court letters issued to the personal representative
must be attached to the affidavit.

heres what they told me.....NO!!! They said they require all that PLUS a, and i quote, "a certified copy of letter of appointment of legal representative".
So i call the local probate court and she tells me that the above IS PROBATE ! In other words, here i am doing a small estate affidavit to avoid probate and they are telling me that to get this certified BS thing which IS itself probate !

She also just kinda laughed and said "yeah, they all try and give you the runaround...it's typical". But that runaround seems to be their normal procedure that they probably make everyone do in hopes they give up their quest. So in other words, even if i do all the law requires they will still refuse.That only means one thing to me...they'd be forcing me to get a lawyer and sue them, which it the exact thing i'm trying to avoid in the first place by not doing probate !!! (well, not sue, but get a lawyer)

So the question is, who's right, who's wrong, and the one thing i don't understand, why is no one on either end, the court or the fund asking me for my ID ? Each side has told me the things i need, but none of them is a official way to establish who i actually am !!! I can go with what the court clerk told me and just follow the instructions, but how does the fund even know that i AM the legal decedent or successor or heir, whatever the right term is ? It seems to me the notorized affidavit, a death certificate, and some form of ID would be all thats needed. But why no form of ID is requested either in the probate code for transfer via small estate affidavit or by the fund is beyond me !

How far up the food chain at the mutual fund company have you gone? Keep asking for a supervisor/manager each time you get the "NO."

Be patient, and ask for someone who has handled a California situation before. Compared to most other states, getting letters here is a "federal project", so as anteater says, keep moving up the food chain until you find someone as smart as you. Keep in mind the people on the other end deal with people like you in fifty different states with fifty different laws, and perhaps those with accounts outside of the U.S. By now you probably know as much as one of them familiar with California law knows. Problem is the person on the other end might not know, and the only way he or she can get out of a "dumb" situation is to say "get letters." Just keep pressing, and above all, be nice. Look at Probate Code Section 13105(b) for solace if you do need to sue, but since Calif is a big state, you will find someone soon.

tecate said:

...Look at Probate Code Section 13105(b) for solace if you do need to sue, but since Calif is a big state, you will find someone soon.

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If you can't work your way to someone who can solve the problem, I would use 13105(b) for more than solace.

A calmly spoken "I guess that I will have to pursue the legal remedies available to me under California Probate Code Section 13105(b). You know, the section that says I have the right to sue and recover my attorney's fees...." could do the trick.