Age of search and detention

What is the name of your state? North Carolina

High all, and I appreciate any advice in advance.

My thirteen-year-old daughter was at the mall with a real "wonderful" stand up guy (read: severe sarcasm)

He convinced her to put a $13.95 dollar bracelet "he" wanted to get for her, into her pocket. Of course the store employees did not miss a beat, and stopped them as they left the store, taking them to "the room" in the back. They asked her what age she was, when she answered 13, they replied "Bull****, your 18" Her mom was in the mall and they refused to allow my daughter to contact her mother, refused to allow her to leave, and frisked her, searching her pockets and finding the bracelet. At no time was there any police present; it was just the store employees. She was finally allowed to leave the store, with them taking down her name and address, but again there was an absence of police.

Now I know how wrong my daughter is in this matter, and you will have believe me when I tell you she has had the "Hammer of Dad " lowered onto her swiftly and justly.

My question involves the legalities of the store employees, and the fact that we have now received an official looking letter from the store "lawyers" demanding $200 in penalties. How can they do this, or is this even legal without any court proceedings? And while I do not intend on giving my daughter the wrong idea, do I have any legal recourse over the search and confinement issues presented by the store employees and their actions? Thanks again for you input.

Nothing in your post suggests the employees did anything wrong, they are allowed to detain suspected shoplifters and perform minimal searches such as they did. Because the police were not involved, you and your daughter likely saved yourselves from further fines and other penalties. The letter you received is called a civil demand letter and is allowed by state law. You can copy and paste the URL below, it is your state's civil liability law.

http://law.justia.com/northcarolina/codes/chapter_1/gs_1-538.2.html

As part of payment, you should make sure that there is some sort of contract stating that your payment will prevent any litigation on their part in this matter. Without such a promise from them, they have at least a year to still go ahead and file charges.

Thanks

I appreciate your input, and do count myself lucky not to have court dates and such in the future.

I just have a real hard time wrapping my head around the fact that they can keep a 13 year old girl locked up, not allow her to leave or even contact her mother, and put their hands on her person and in her pockets. Yes I know they suspected shoplifting, but to me it sounds like kidnapping and child molestation, allowed due to the fact that someone "thought" she might have taking something, if it is true or not. That’s just how I am viewing this. Now if she where 18 or 20, the ball is in her court and she sinks or swims on her own, with my obligation being more of a supportive one. Right now I am supposed to teach and protect her, and it honestly feels as if I am doing any of those jobs real well right now.

SimplyMossome said:

Yes I know they suspected shoplifting, but to me it sounds like kidnapping and child molestation,

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Based on what you wrote, it was neither.

Kidnapping is the UNLAWFUL taking and movement of a person from one place to another. False imprisonment is likewise an UNLAWFUL restraint of a person. Detaining someone with reasonable suspicion to believe they had committed a crime (and she apparently had doen so) is perfectly lawful in every state I am aware of.

Chilc molestation requires that she had been fondled or groped for some form of sexual gratification. You wrote that she was frisked and the stolen bracelet was discovered. This is not molestation.

allowed due to the fact that someone "thought" she might have taking something, if it is true or not.

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They are permitted to detain with reasonable suspicion - a relatively low burden to show. And, apparently, they were correct ... she DID have the bracelet. And it is likely that staff observed her take and conceal it.

- Carl

You're right

I know, you are absolutely correct, and I said earlier that the staff had them pegged almost immediately, she was not very well versed in how to do this without being caught, one thing I should be glad about, she is not a well practiced thief, which implies she is fairly new at it, like that is something to be proud of!

I feel as if I am not making myself very clear about some things. I am very disappointed in my daughter’s actions and how she has behaved, but I have had some indicators of her declining behavior. Since this year began she has been caught drinking and smoking, which made me very unhappy. I was not trying to imply or definitively state that she had been kidnapped and molested, I was merely trying to express my feelings in this matter, and how it was handled, how I felt about it and what I had trouble with wrapping my head around, not that what they did was illegal or improper, although the purpose of my posting here was to make defiantly sure that they did not break the law in how they handled this matter, but as the Dad here, how it made me feel, and how it feels that not only have I not done my job, but have let her down as well in how I have done my job.

Again, I see my job with her is to teach and protect, and it is my belief that when you figure the drinking, smoking and shoplifting I am not doing my job as I should at all and am quite honestly more disappointed in my actions and how I am doing my job then I am with her actions and behaviors right now. I honestly do not know what to with her right now; I am just at a total lost, maybe boarding school?

I felt that in her first 12 years I did rather well, and as a family we were in good shape, but we have really gone down hill in the last year. Maybe that is just how it goes with kids, I don’t know. I should probably be posting on a family counseling site, rather than here.

SimplyMossome said:

I should probably be posting on a family counseling site, rather than here.

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Probably.
Good luck. Don't give up.

The problems you mention are not uncommon with children who are beginning their downward spiral. I suspect tardiness or outright truancy may be issues as well ... if not now, then likely later. The greatest indicators of further delinquency tends to be smoking and truancy.

If you can, you need to get her in for come counseling - family counseling. I would also strongly suggest - if not already done - that you curtail these freedoms. Going to the mall with some guy should be off the table now, and if it were me, trips without a parent would be right out - as would a cell phone, internet, and any other privilege that she has not EARNED the right to have by GOOD behavior.

I wish you luck trying to rein her in, and encourage you not to cave and to hold fast no matter the pain it might cause.

Good luck.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

I would also strongly suggest - if not already done - that you curtail these freedoms. Going to the mall with some guy should be off the table now, and if it were me, trips without a parent would be right out - as would a cell phone, internet, and any other privilege that she has not EARNED the right to have by GOOD behavior.

I wish you luck trying to rein her in, and encourage you not to cave and to hold fast no matter the pain it might cause.

Good luck.

- Carl

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Ditto all that. I'd also get her involved in some sort of activities - it's harder for busy kids to get themselves in trouble.

stealth2 said:

Ditto all that. I'd also get her involved in some sort of activities - it's harder for busy kids to get themselves in trouble.

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Yep. I call those activities "the anti-drug" ... but, they can just as easily be the "anti-delinquency".

My teen son doesn't have the time or the means to get in to much trouble because we DO keep him busy. He goes to the movies with his friends on Friday night, but since I am a friend of the owner of the theater (and we are a small town) I KNOW if he gets out of line there.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

Yep. I call those activities "the anti-drug" ... but, they can just as easily be the "anti-delinquency".

My teen son doesn't have the time or the means to get in to much trouble because we DO keep him busy. He goes to the movies with his friends on Friday night, but since I am a friend of the owner of the theater (and we are a small town) I KNOW if he gets out of line there.

- Carl

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Yep. I have 2 teens at the moment (almost 16yo boy, 13yo girl). And I'll happily tell ya that I have no life 'cause when I'm not working, I'm ferrying them around from one thing to another. They honestly have little time to get themselves into trouble. And with the little time that they do have for it? They're regularly reminded just how much a few moments of stupidity can affect their lives.

Hopefully, some of that will percolate through to their brains. One can only hope. But I'm tired of burying kids who do stupid ****, and I'm tired of helping little girls who find themselves to be mothers long before they are ready for it.

The really nice thing about a small town is that the kids can rarely get away with much of anything ... I usually hear about it all. And my oldest always has two little brothers (one that goes to his school) who are more than happy to pass on any tales about him!

Unfortunately, we keep burying kids for stupid stuff - most often, around here, underage DUI. And it's a banner year for knocked up teens! We're at an all time record for reported teen pregnancies! Darn near twice as many as last year, and we still have two months left in the calendar year! Makes me wonder what they're teaching in that sex ed. class ...

- Carl

I hear ya, Carl. We've put 10 in the ground due to traffic accidents since March, and only two were non-drug/alcohol related (brother/sister on the way to school, too little experience, a bit too much speed, and a slick and windy road...). With a soon-to-be new driver, it's some scary stuff.

As for pregnant girls.... Don't know the numbers, but too many. There are at least two at the middle school, though. Luckily, so far both of mine have concrete goals for the future and (seem to) understand how a child would impact those plans. But there's still a lot of praying and finger crossing!

stealth2 said:

As for pregnant girls.... Don't know the numbers, but too many. There are at least two at the middle school, though. Luckily, so far both of mine have concrete goals for the future and (seem to) understand how a child would impact those plans. But there's still a lot of praying and finger crossing!

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A few months ago, my sixteen year old daughter and her friend went to a movie, and came home to announce that they want to die virgins. It seems that the movie "Knocked Up" scared them away from sex!

Indiana Filer said:

A few months ago, my sixteen year old daughter and her friend went to a movie, and came home to announce that they want to die virgins. It seems that the movie "Knocked Up" scared them away from sex!

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Great! Free showing of that at my house!

- Carl