Shady Uncle

What is the name of your state? NY

THIS IS A REALLY COMPLICATED SITUATION FOR MY HUSBAND AND I. WELL REALLY, HIM. BUT I'M INVOLVED BECAUSE WE'RE MARRIED NOW, AND I WANT TO SEE HIM GET WHAT HE DESERVES.

MY HUSBAND WAS EXTREMELY CLOSE TO HIS GRANDFATHER. I'VE BEEN TOLD MY MANY (ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FAMILY) THAT HE WAS GRANDPA'S PRIDE AND JOY. BACK WHEN MY HUSBAND WAS A CHILD, HIS GRANDPA WROTE A WILL. IN THAT WILL, IT STATED THAT WHEN HE PASSED ON, HIS HOUSE (AND THAT PROPERTY) WOULD GO TO MY HUSBANDS MOTHER. AND IF SHE WERE TO PREDECEASE HIM, THE HOUSE (AND PROPERTY) WOULD GO TO MY HUSBAND "TO BE HIS ABSOLUTLY". WHAT WOULD BE GRANDPA'S INTEREST AND STOCK IN THE BUSINESS HE HAD WOULD GO TO MY HUSBAND'S (SHADY) UNCLE. AND IF THE UNCLE WERE TO PREDECEASE THE GRANDPA, THE UNCLES SHARE OF THE BUSINESS WOULD GO TO THE UNCLES SON.
SINCE THAT WILL WAS WRITTEN, MY HUSBANDS MOTHER PASSED AWAY, AND THE WILL WAS RE-WRITTEN. MIND YOU, MY HUSBAND WAS STILL GRANDPAS PRIDE AND JOY. THEY HAD AN EXTREMELY GOOD RELATIONSHIP. MY HUSBAND WAS TOLD BY THE GRANDFATHER (MANY TIMES), THE GRANDPAS SISTER, AND A FEW OTHER RELATIVES AND CLOSE FRIENDS OF THE FAMILY THAT THE HOUSE WOULD BELONG TO HIM WHEN HE REACHED THE AGE OF 25. AND MY HUSBANDS FATHER WAS SUPPOSED TO GET ONE PLOT OF HUNTING LAND. AND THE UNCLE WAS SUPPOSED TO GET THE OTHER PLOT OF HUNTING LAND (BOTH WERE PURCHASED AFTER WRITING THE 1ST WILL, WHICH IS WHY THEY WEREN'T MENTIONED).
HIS GRANDPA PASSED AWAY IN 2004 (WHEN MY HUSBNAD WAS 22). THE UNCLE WAS LIVING IN THE HOUSE, WHICH WASN'T A BIG DEAL SINCE IT WOULDN'T BE MY HUSBANDS FOR ANOTHER 3 YEARS. SINCE HIS BIRTHDAY IS COMMING UP IN A FEW MONTHS, WE'VE BEEN REALLY PRESSING THE ISSUE. HE'S BEEN TRYING TO CONTACT THE UNCLE, WITH EITHER NO ANSWER, OR WHEN HE DOES, THE UNCLE SAYS IT'S THE WRONG NUMBER! MY HUSBAND LIVED THERE FOR *YEARS*! I'M SURE HE KONWS THE OHONE NUMBER TO THE HOUSE
WE HAVE ALSO FOUND OUT (OVER THE PAST WEEK) THAT THE UNCLE IS NOT PAYING PROPERTY TAX ON ANY OF THE 3 PROPERTIES! WE'VE TALKED TO MY HUSBAND'S GREAT AUNT (WHO LIVES IN ANOTHER STATE), AND EVEN SHE HEARD THAT HE WASN'T PAYING TAXES, AND WOULD PROBABLY LOSE THE HOUSE THIS YEAR!
SO, SINCE NOBODY WAS ABLE TO GET INTO THE HOUSE TO OBTAIN THEIR COPIES OF THE WILL (IN MY HUSBANDS OLD BEDROON ((HIS STUFF'S STILL THERE!)), WE WENT DOWNTOWN TO THE RECORD ROOM OF THE CITY COURT AND GOT OUR OWN COPIES.

***KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE WAS ABSOLUTLY NO HARDSHIPS, ARGUMENTS, OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT THAT SHOULD HAVE DRASTICALLY CHANGED THE WILL, OTHER THAN HIS MOTHER PASSING AWAY. BUT THAT SHOULD HAVE JUST MADE HIM THE NEW OWNER OF THE HOUSE. EASY, RIGHT?***

THE NEW WILL SAYS THAT
*THE UNCLE IS THE EXECUTOR (WHICH IS FINE BECAUSE IT WAS MY HUSBANDS MOTHER, AND THE UNCLE IS THE ONLY OTHER CHILD)

*BOTH OF THE PROPERTIES GO TO THE SHADY UNCLE (ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO MY HUSBANDS FATHER, AS THEY WERE TOLD BY MANY, INCLUDING THE GRANDFATHER!)

*AS FOR THE HOUSE
--- 37.5% TO THE UNCLE
--- 37.5% TO MY HUSBAND
---25% TO THE UNCLES SON

NOW, THE GRANDPA *KNEW* THAT MY HUSBAND AND THE UNCLE WERE NOT ON GOOD TERM FOR A LONG TIME.
WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MY HUSBAND WENT FROM HAVING THE HOUSE "TO BE HIS ABSOLUTLY" TO HAVING A 37.5% PART OF THE HOUSE???NOW THE UNCLE AND SON HAVE 62.5% OF THE HOUSE, AND THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN LIVING THERE FOR A FEW YEARS NOW. WHEN MY HUSBAND REACHES THE AGE OF 25 (IN MAY), THE HOUSE MAY ALREADY BE TAKEN AWAY DUE TO BACK TAXES!

NOBODY IN THE FAMILY UNDERSTANDS HOW THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED. NOT EVEN THE GRANDPAS SISTER! WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE WILL, WE NOTICED A FEW DISCREPENCIES. ONE OF WHICH SEEING THAT MY HUSBAND WAS WRITTEN IN WITH HIS MIDDLE NAME ONCE (ON THE 3RD PAGE), AND I HEARD THAT THE GRANDPA WAS EXTREMELY SHARP AND WOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT, AND WOULD NOT HAEV LET IT SLIDE. ALSO, THAT THE 2 WITTNESSES WERE THE UNCLES CLOSE FRIENDS. WHY WOULD THE GRANDPA TAKE THE UNCLES FRIENDS TO GO AND SIGN A WILL??? THE GOOD THING IS THAT THE GRANDPAS SISTER IS THE SUCCESSOR EXECUTRIX (?).

I GUESS, AFTER ALL THAT, MY QUESTION IS THIS. I WILL QUOTE THE PART OF THE WILL THAT I'M QUESTIONING...

"IN THE EVENT THAT MY SON [uncles name], SHALL PREDECEASE ME, FAIL TO QUALIFY, RESIGN OR CEASE TO THE GUARDIANOF THE PROPERTY OF MY GRANDSON'S, [uncles son] OR [my husband], THEN, IN THAT EVENT, I NOMINATE AND APPOINT [grandpas sister], AS SUCCESSOR GUARDIAN OF THE PROPERTY OF MY GRANDSON'S [uncles son] OR [my husbands MIDDLE NAME], UNTIL HE ATTAINS THE AGE OF TWENTY-FIVE (25) YEARS"

REMEMBER WHEN I SAID THAT THE UNCLESE NOT PAYING TAXES ON ANY OF THE 3 PROPERTIES??? WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED "NOT QUALIFYING"? IF SO, CAN THE GRANDPAS SISTER TAKE OVER THE PROPERTY NOW???WE HAVE A REALLY BAD FEELING THAT THE UNCLE IS GOING TO GIVWE US A MUCH HARDER TIME WHEN HE DOES TURN 25. MORE TROUBLE THAN HE ALREADY IS. THE AUNT WOULD TREAT THE SITUATION FAIRLY. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
AND BY THE WAY, IT'S NOT REALLY POSSIBLE FOR US TO JUST GO OUT AND GET A LAWYER. WE'RE A YOUNG COUPLE, I HAVE A CHILD, AND WE'RE NOT EXACTLY RICH.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO READ THIS NOVEL THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED!

Shady uncle, indeed! He may have pulled a fast one on you all. He took advantage of the fact that the will was being rewritten to influence grandfather to make changes beneficial to his interest. Apparently grandfather liked him better than your husband since he signed off on the will.

1. Was the will officially probated in probate court? If your husband, as a legal heir, never received any type of notice about the proceedings and never was asked to sign any documents regarding transfer of the ownership of the home to the new heirs, the executor breached his duty and is obviously trying to keep you all uninformed about what has happened.

2. What is the value of the home if it were sold?

3. Who owns the house now?

4. How much is past due in property taxes? Your husband needs to contact the county and find out what the outstanding balance is and exactly where the tax notices have been mailed to. Then he should take out a loan from a family member or bank/credit union to get the taxes taken care of so that the home will not be lost. Since your husband is apparently part owner of the home he is responsible for 37.5% of the property tax bill and he can send a bill to the uncle and to the uncle's son for their share.

5. Does uncle have a job or is he retired and in reduced financial circumstances?

Your husband needs to be looking at the probate file to see how the entire estate was handled and to see if there is any mention of the home and whether title was officially transferred to the names of the new legal owners. If that was not done, then he needs to find out how that will legally need to be done (perhaps probate just for this property if it was not done originally).

The part of the will that you questioned is not relevant--since there is a condition stating that the uncle must predecease the grandfather, which obviously did NOT happen, that phrase is invalid and does not apply at all.

At some point your husband will need to at least have a consultation with a probate attorney to review how this probate was handled and what your husband's options now should be and to answer any further questions he might have. The first consultation is usually very reasonable and affordable and would only take a couple of hours, so don't automatically assume that it will be inordinately expensive. You need an attorney's advice to figure out what happened here and more importantly, to find out WHETHER YOUR HUSBAND'S NAME HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY, LEGALLY RECORDED ON THE TITLE/DEED AS CO-OWNER (cost of having an abstract/title search done will be a few hundred dollars, but your attorney may have other ways of getting the ownership information without it costing you anything).

The uncle obviously doesn't like you all so try to keep contact with him minimal, if at all. Looks like any communications you all need to have with him should be done through your attorney or through a relative, since greed has made him not care anything about anyone else besides himself. It's amazing why your husband did not look into this earlier while the will was being probated, but since you all never received notice about it, it's certainly understandable.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING!
I'M NOT SO SURE THE GRANDFATHER "LIKED HIM BETTER" THE UNCLE IS NOW HIS ONLY LIVING CHILD. THE GRANDFATHER KNEW THAT HE WS IRRESPONSIBLE. HE HAS BEEN FOR YEARS! GRANTED, SO WAS MY HUSBAND, BUT HE WSA JUST A TEENAGER WHEN HE WS LIVING THERE. WHAT TEEN ISN'T IRRESPONSIBLE AT TIMES...LOL!. I GOT AN EMAIL FROM THE GRANDPAS SISTER (THE SUCCOSSOR EXECUTRIX). SHE THINKS THAT THE WILL THAT WAS HANDED INTO THE COURTS WAS A FORGERY. EVERYONE KNEW THAT HE HAD A DIFFERENT LAWYER THAN THE ONE THAT "PREPARED" THIS WIL. THE ONE THAT DID THIS ONE IS THE UNCLES BEST FRIEND!
1. I'M NOT SURE IF THE WILL WAS OFFICIALLY PROBATED. WOULDN'T THEY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL MY HUSBAND IS 25? BUT MAYBE IT WAS. I FOUND A COPY IN THE RECORD ROOM OF THE CITY COURT (SURROGATE COURT). I'M NOT SURE IF IT HAS TO GO THROUGH PROBATE BEFORE IT GOES THERE OR NOT. AND ALL THIS HAPPENED BEFORE I CAME INTO THE PICTURE. SO I'M NOT POSITIVE. IS THERE ANY WAY TO FIND OUT FOR SURE? MY HUSBAND SIGNED SOMETHING, BUT HE DOESN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS. HE THOUGH IT WAS MAYBE THE WILL, BUT I TOLD HIM THAT AS A BENEFICIARY OF THE WILL, HE WAS UNABLE TO SING AS A WITTNESS OR ANYTHING. HE DOESN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS THAT HE SIGNED. BUT WHATEVER IT WAS, WASN'T IN THE FOLDER WITH THE WILL. THERE WAS NOTHING THERE WITH HIS SIGNATURE ON IT.
2. I'M NOT POSITIVE OF THE VALUE OF THE HOME. I KNOW THAT THERE'S A $17,000 LEIN ON THE HOUSE. THEY HAD TO TAKE A LOAN OUT ON THE ESTATE TO PAY FOR THE FUNERAL, AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PAID BACK AFTER THE FUNERAL BY THE UNCLE (BUT NEVER WAS). IF I WERE TO TAKE AN ESTIMATED GUESS ON THE VALUE OF THE HOUSE (I'VE READ PLENTY OF HOUSE BROCHURES FROM TOPS...LOL), I'D SAY PROBABLY $120,000.
3. THE HOUSE IS STILL UNDER THE GRANDFATHERS NAME. WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON I THINK THEY HAVE TO WAIT TILL MY HUBBY'S 25 (AND THE OTHER GRANDSON). OR MAYBE JUST UNTIL THE LEIN'S PAID OFF.
4. I TRIED TO FIND OUT THE TAX BALANCE, BUT THE OFFICE WAS ALREADY CLOSED WHEN I GOT THERE ON FRIDAY. THAT'S MONDAY'S ERRAND.
5. FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD, THE UNCLE'S NOT WORKING. APPARENTLY HE TAKES ":MINI-VACATIONS" WHENEVER HE WANTS. HE'LL TAKE OFF FOR WEEKS AT A TIME. I'M NOT SURE ANY EMPLOYER WOULD TOLERATE THAT TOO KEENLY.

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR RESPONSE. HIS FATHER IS SUPPOSED TO BE COMMING OVER TODAY TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER. AND WE FINALLY FOR THE PHONE NUMBER FOR THE GRANDPAS SISTER (WHO I'M HOPING HAS A SAY OVER THE UNCLE). MONDAY IS GOING TO BE A BIG "GET SOME INFO DAY".

Dandy Don said:

Shady uncle, indeed! He may have pulled a fast one on you all. He took advantage of the fact that the will was being rewritten to influence grandfather to make changes beneficial to his interest. Apparently grandfather liked him better than your husband since he signed off on the will.

1. Was the will officially probated in probate court? If your husband, as a legal heir, never received any type of notice about the proceedings and never was asked to sign any documents regarding transfer of the ownership of the home to the new heirs, the executor breached his duty and is obviously trying to keep you all uninformed about what has happened.

2. What is the value of the home if it were sold?

3. Who owns the house now?

4. How much is past due in property taxes? Your husband needs to contact the county and find out what the outstanding balance is and exactly where the tax notices have been mailed to. Then he should take out a loan from a family member or bank/credit union to get the taxes taken care of so that the home will not be lost. Since your husband is apparently part owner of the home he is responsible for 37.5% of the property tax bill and he can send a bill to the uncle and to the uncle's son for their share.

5. Does uncle have a job or is he retired and in reduced financial circumstances?

Your husband needs to be looking at the probate file to see how the entire estate was handled and to see if there is any mention of the home and whether title was officially transferred to the names of the new legal owners. If that was not done, then he needs to find out how that will legally need to be done (perhaps probate just for this property if it was not done originally).

The part of the will that you questioned is not relevant--since there is a condition stating that the uncle must predecease the grandfather, which obviously did NOT happen, that phrase is invalid and does not apply at all.

At some point your husband will need to at least have a consultation with a probate attorney to review how this probate was handled and what your husband's options now should be and to answer any further questions he might have. The first consultation is usually very reasonable and affordable and would only take a couple of hours, so don't automatically assume that it will be inordinately expensive. You need an attorney's advice to figure out what happened here and more importantly, to find out WHETHER YOUR HUSBAND'S NAME HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY, LEGALLY RECORDED ON THE TITLE/DEED AS CO-OWNER (cost of having an abstract/title search done will be a few hundred dollars, but your attorney may have other ways of getting the ownership information without it costing you anything).

The uncle obviously doesn't like you all so try to keep contact with him minimal, if at all. Looks like any communications you all need to have with him should be done through your attorney or through a relative, since greed has made him not care anything about anyone else besides himself. It's amazing why your husband did not look into this earlier while the will was being probated, but since you all never received notice about it, it's certainly understandable.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

Click to expand...

I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE PAST DUE TAXES. 2005 WAS PAID. 2006-07 TAXES ARE BEHIND $9,000.52 SO FAR. THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE SCHOOL TAXES. THEY TOLD ME IF I CALL BACK IN A COUPLE WEEKS, THEY'D BE ABLE TO GIVE ME AN EXACT FIGURE (THEY HAVE TO GET THE SCHOOL TAX INFO FROM THE TOWN).

That's a good start. Now it is also vitally important to check with the probate court to see if any type of probate was ever done in your grandfather's name. I'll bet that there wasn't.

THANK YOU! SO I JUST CALL THERE, AND BE LIKE "WAS THERE EVER A PROBATE FOR THIS CASE"? AND IF THERE WAS, IS THERE A TIME LIMIT FOR MY HUSBAND TO QUESTION IT? AND IF THERE WASN'T, CAN THE UNCLE GET IN TROUBLE? WE'RE TALKING ALMOST 3 YEARS NOW.
WE ALSO NOTICED THAT THERE WAS A *HUGE* PLOT OF LAND THAT WASN'T MENTIONED IN THE WILL THAT THE GRANDFATHER CO-OWNED (FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD, LARGE ENOUGH THAT THEY WANT TO BUY IT OUT AND BUILD A WALMART ON IT).
HOW DO WE FIND OUT IF THERE WAS A TRUST? MY HUSBAND'S FRIENDS AUNT SAID THAT SHE HAD SOMETHING FOR MY HUSBAND FROM HIS GRANDFATHER. BUT SHE RECENTLY PASSED AWAY, AND NOBODY IS ABLE TO LOCATE WHATEVER SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT SHE WAS A LIVING TRUST, AND HAD THINGS FROM GRANDPA TO GIVE TO MY HUSBAND. BUT NOW THAT SHE'S PASSED AWAY.... IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT WAS SIGNED OVER TO HER TO GIVE TO HIM, WHAT DO WE DO SINCE SHE PASSED AWAY???
MAYBE THAT WASN'T THE CASE, BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRITTEN IN THE WILL ABOUT BANK ACCOUNTS OR ANYTHING EITHER. THERE'S GOT TO BE A LIVING TRUST SOMEWHERE FOR THAT, RIGHT? AND IF THERE IS, HOW DO WE FIND OUT WHO IT IS TO SEE IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING FOR MY HUSBAND?

You just tell them the month and year he died and his name and they can check their computer to see if probate was filed, or they may have to do it manually. Also ask if they have a probate file for your husband's friends aunt.

As far as finding out information about the trust, that is a private document so you will have to consult an attorney to find out how to get that information. You don't know who the trustee actually was (although it was probably shady uncle), so your attorney may be able to contact the state and/or federal tax authorities to see if a tax return was filed for the trust.

I Got Some More Information

I Went Downtown Again Today And Got A Copy Of The Deed And Tax Information. I Also Went To See If There Was Ever A Probate For His Grandpas Will. They Said That Probate Opened In November 2004, And It Was Still Open. How Long Do They Usually Stay Open For? His Grandpa Passed Away In September Of 2004. Will It Stay Open Until My Husband Is 25? I Don't Know How Any Of This Stuff Works....
I'm Still Worried About The Whole Tax Situation. The Deed Is Still Under My Husbands Grandpas Name. And I'm Worried That If And When The Situation Gets Resolved, That The Back Taxes And The Lein On The House (which Paid For The Funeral And Other Expenses And Was Supposed To Be Paid Back By The Uncle) Will Be My Husbands Responsibility! We Also Recently Learned That The Uncle May Have Friends Living In The House. Can He Do That Without My Husbands "permission"? We Don't Know If That's Actually The Case (just Hear-say), And If There Is, If They're Paying Rent Or Anything.

They Also Told Me That Any Other Info We Wanted To Get, We'd Have To Get It From The Grandfathers Lawyer. Can The Lawyer Give Out Information Like That? We'd Like To Know As Much As We Possibly Can About What's Going On With Probate And The Estate In General

please help

I JUST WANTED TO BUMP THIS UP SO THAT IT WOULDN'T GET LOST IN ALL THE OTHER THREADS. ANY ADVISE WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED!

Since the will and probate file are public record, you can ask for copies of the will and everything that is in the probate file.

You are going to eventually have to consult a probate attorney to get everything straightened out, so the best thing for you to do is to sit down and have at least a one-hour or 2-hour consultation so that the attorney can advise you of your options. This is NOT a do-it-yourself project. A first time consultation is very affordable and inexpensive.

If you can't afford to have copies made of the probate file, just get a copy of the will (if there is one) for now so you can see what it says. If they give you the probate file, at least read through the whole thing to see if there is any financial information in there.

sorry for being so uninformed about all this

are the will and the probate in the same file??? when i went to get a copy of the will, i got copies of EVERYTHING in the folder. a few days later, i went back to look up probate, but all they offered for me to use was the computer, which was to tell me if there was a probate opened, and that was it. there was nothing in the folder that said soandso gets this much and soandso gets that much. only the will specified that stuff. so when i go back, is there a different file i should ask for then? or is what's in the folder with the will everything? probate is still open (if that little tidbit helps any).
it takes me 20-30 minutes to drivetown (along with trying to find parking and walking to the city court from the ramp, and also the beautiful buffalo weather...lol). so i'm trying to find out as much as i can on here. thanks again!

Normally the probate information is in the file along with the will. Ask the clerk to look at the file with you and say "How can I know for sure whether this will was officially probated or not?" Sounds like you were just given a copy of the will if for example they may have only been keeping it for safekeeping until a later date until the executor comes to get it. You need to find out for sure and ask the clerk where the financial information about how the estate was handled is and documents to show whether the executor filed for letters testamentary. And you will STILL need to consult with an attorney to help figure everything out.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])