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Obtaining proof before proceeding with Small Claims action
- Thread starter bj21
- Start date
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Zigner
Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Yes I'd like to read it.
Once you do the filing, you have the power to issue a subpoena doces tecum (a subpoena for documents and records). Use it, unless you're trying to get information that, by law, your state can't release under circumstances specific to your case.
Usually a site such as:http://www.dmv.org can tell you what that might be.
Or tell the story to Zigner first.
Zigner - are you jerking somebody's chain? At least add similes, if so.
Usually a site such as:http://www.dmv.org can tell you what that might be.
Or tell the story to Zigner first.
Zigner - are you jerking somebody's chain? At least add similes, if so.
Have you requested those documents from that bureau?
My state is New York
Here are the details:
I knew of a parking lot next to a bar that changed hands in mid-2006. The new owner was only selling monthly permits to daytime workers at the time and did not know that on Thurday afternoons his lot would be flooded with unpaying cars because of a free event held each week in the area.
I contacted the owner and asked him if I could work the lot Thursday afternoons, charge each car $5.00, and split the proceeds with him 50/50. He said that would be fine, and the following Thursday I started working the lot.
Everthing between me and the lot owner went fine at the beginning and I asked him for a letter stating I had permission to work the lot and collect a $5.00 fee, which he provided.
The letter states "Bill is autorized to work the lot at said address and collect a parking fee for me".
The bar owner wasn't happy at all however, and after getting PO'd about six weeks later because I wouldn't let her customers park for free, the bar owner told me I wasn't allowed in the bar anymore.
At this point I asked the lot owner if I could also work the lot on weekends and on other days when I heard the bar would be having a function and he told me if I wanted to stand out there, it was OK with him.
One day in Feb. 2007 when I was working the lot the bar owner had enough and had me set up. He came out and asked me if I was charging to park and I told him "you pay to park, why shouldn't everyone else?" (he has a permit). A half hour later a man comes into the lot, pays $5.00 for parking, and stands there. I ask him what he wants and he said he gave me a twenty and wants his change. I showed him I still had the money in my hand and it was a $5.00 bill. he goes into the bar and the next thing I know, a cop friend of the bar shows up. She listens to the man's complaint, then comes over to me and tells me she believes him and to give him his $15.00. I refuse, saying I know I didn't cheat him because the money had never even hit my pocket at the time the man had made his complaint, and I sure didn't make enough money to be handing out $15.00 to anyone who asked.
Then the cop asked me to prove that I even had authorization to work the lot and I showed her the letter I received from the lot owner. She called him and asked him if I was authorized to work the lot, and he must have told her yes because the next thing she said to him was "well, if you stick with that story, I'm going to come and jack you up because this lot doesn't have a permit and you shouldn't even be selling monthly permits, much less having someone out here charging, so are you going to cooperate or not?"
That's when the lot owner asks what she wants him to do. Her reply is that he'd have to sign a complaint against me that day for tresspassing and multiple counts of fraud by deception. (The man I work for had a multi-million dollar loft project under construction next door (that's why he bought the lot) and didn't want trouble from the city) so the SOB told her he'd sign the complaint, and I was immediately arrested.
I spent approx. 20 hours in the holding center before being arraigned and am on seizure medication (when I was being held out of the 6 pills I should have taken, I received 1, causing me to have seizures for 2 days after being released.)
I had to spend $750.00 on an attorney for the criminal case and the first time I had to appear in court the A.D.A. handling the case asked to have the case dismissed on her own motion. I thanked her in the hallway afterwards and she said that after she got the whole story, it was an easy call. (The letter I showed the cop mysteriously dissapeared but I had a copy, along with cancelled checks that said "parking lot proceeds for w/e - date" on each of them, and bank statements showing the checks cleared.)
I want to try to recoup attorney fees, plus money for being arrested, spending overnight in jail, and being sick for 2 days once I got out.
The guy I worked for now says that I was only authorized to work the lot at night and the only way I can think of to prove otherwise is that while I was working for him a permit holder parked in the lot before I got there and didn't have their permit hanging. I didn't recognize the car and had Parking Enforcement ticket it. Later I heard that the lot owner wrote a letter for the permit holder stating that she had authority to park there and to please excuse the ticket.
If I can obtain a copy of this ticket, it will show that the lot owner knew that I was there in the daytime also, and thus his statement now that I wasn't authorized to be there during the day won't hold up.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any advice you can give me!
Here are the details:
I knew of a parking lot next to a bar that changed hands in mid-2006. The new owner was only selling monthly permits to daytime workers at the time and did not know that on Thurday afternoons his lot would be flooded with unpaying cars because of a free event held each week in the area.
I contacted the owner and asked him if I could work the lot Thursday afternoons, charge each car $5.00, and split the proceeds with him 50/50. He said that would be fine, and the following Thursday I started working the lot.
Everthing between me and the lot owner went fine at the beginning and I asked him for a letter stating I had permission to work the lot and collect a $5.00 fee, which he provided.
The letter states "Bill is autorized to work the lot at said address and collect a parking fee for me".
The bar owner wasn't happy at all however, and after getting PO'd about six weeks later because I wouldn't let her customers park for free, the bar owner told me I wasn't allowed in the bar anymore.
At this point I asked the lot owner if I could also work the lot on weekends and on other days when I heard the bar would be having a function and he told me if I wanted to stand out there, it was OK with him.
One day in Feb. 2007 when I was working the lot the bar owner had enough and had me set up. He came out and asked me if I was charging to park and I told him "you pay to park, why shouldn't everyone else?" (he has a permit). A half hour later a man comes into the lot, pays $5.00 for parking, and stands there. I ask him what he wants and he said he gave me a twenty and wants his change. I showed him I still had the money in my hand and it was a $5.00 bill. he goes into the bar and the next thing I know, a cop friend of the bar shows up. She listens to the man's complaint, then comes over to me and tells me she believes him and to give him his $15.00. I refuse, saying I know I didn't cheat him because the money had never even hit my pocket at the time the man had made his complaint, and I sure didn't make enough money to be handing out $15.00 to anyone who asked.
Then the cop asked me to prove that I even had authorization to work the lot and I showed her the letter I received from the lot owner. She called him and asked him if I was authorized to work the lot, and he must have told her yes because the next thing she said to him was "well, if you stick with that story, I'm going to come and jack you up because this lot doesn't have a permit and you shouldn't even be selling monthly permits, much less having someone out here charging, so are you going to cooperate or not?"
That's when the lot owner asks what she wants him to do. Her reply is that he'd have to sign a complaint against me that day for tresspassing and multiple counts of fraud by deception. (The man I work for had a multi-million dollar loft project under construction next door (that's why he bought the lot) and didn't want trouble from the city) so the SOB told her he'd sign the complaint, and I was immediately arrested.
I spent approx. 20 hours in the holding center before being arraigned and am on seizure medication (when I was being held out of the 6 pills I should have taken, I received 1, causing me to have seizures for 2 days after being released.)
I had to spend $750.00 on an attorney for the criminal case and the first time I had to appear in court the A.D.A. handling the case asked to have the case dismissed on her own motion. I thanked her in the hallway afterwards and she said that after she got the whole story, it was an easy call. (The letter I showed the cop mysteriously dissapeared but I had a copy, along with cancelled checks that said "parking lot proceeds for w/e - date" on each of them, and bank statements showing the checks cleared.)
I want to try to recoup attorney fees, plus money for being arrested, spending overnight in jail, and being sick for 2 days once I got out.
The guy I worked for now says that I was only authorized to work the lot at night and the only way I can think of to prove otherwise is that while I was working for him a permit holder parked in the lot before I got there and didn't have their permit hanging. I didn't recognize the car and had Parking Enforcement ticket it. Later I heard that the lot owner wrote a letter for the permit holder stating that she had authority to park there and to please excuse the ticket.
If I can obtain a copy of this ticket, it will show that the lot owner knew that I was there in the daytime also, and thus his statement now that I wasn't authorized to be there during the day won't hold up.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any advice you can give me!
You can ask the clerk of the court for a subpoena ( cost about 3 bucks ) , you have to be specific .
The only thing that matters is the letter from the owner giving you permission to collect fees .
Even then you were out there illegally collecting fees with no permit to do so .
Sue the lot owner if anyone .
The only thing that matters is the letter from the owner giving you permission to collect fees .
Even then you were out there illegally collecting fees with no permit to do so .
Sue the lot owner if anyone .
Would giving the car's description, license plate #, and address at which the parking ticket was issued be specific enough? (I do not know the date the ticket was issued.)
I would be requesting a copy of the parking ticket issued to this car at this address, the disposition of the ticket, and any documents (e.g. letter from the lot owner) used in determining the disposition of this case.
I would be requesting a copy of the parking ticket issued to this car at this address, the disposition of the ticket, and any documents (e.g. letter from the lot owner) used in determining the disposition of this case.
You Are Guilty
Senior Member
Everyone meant well, but legally, they're off base.
Far and away, the simplest solution to this is to send a FOIL request to the Buffalo Parking Authority. The only address I can find for them is:
Parking Violations
Room 111, City Hall
Buffalo, NY 14202
however, you may want to do some further research on that. There is no "trick" to writing the request, and there are several web sites that will walk you through the process. I find this one is rather comprehensive, but feel free to use others:
http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php
Beyond that, if you subpoena the records, the city will likely just ignore them, as is their right. On the other hand, if you get no response to your FOIL request, once you exhaust the appeals process (which is required to be spelled out in their response to you), you are free to file an Article 78 petition in court. Unfortunately, this can't be done in small claims, so you'd be in "real court" which will likely necessitate the use/assistance of an attorney, as this is not a common cause of action and has the potential to be dismissed easily if you fail to follow all the various rules.
Good luck.
Far and away, the simplest solution to this is to send a FOIL request to the Buffalo Parking Authority. The only address I can find for them is:
Parking Violations
Room 111, City Hall
Buffalo, NY 14202
however, you may want to do some further research on that. There is no "trick" to writing the request, and there are several web sites that will walk you through the process. I find this one is rather comprehensive, but feel free to use others:
http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php
Beyond that, if you subpoena the records, the city will likely just ignore them, as is their right. On the other hand, if you get no response to your FOIL request, once you exhaust the appeals process (which is required to be spelled out in their response to you), you are free to file an Article 78 petition in court. Unfortunately, this can't be done in small claims, so you'd be in "real court" which will likely necessitate the use/assistance of an attorney, as this is not a common cause of action and has the potential to be dismissed easily if you fail to follow all the various rules.
Good luck.
Even though the site appeared to be only for Federal & State agencies, I tried it anyway and eventually successfully created a letter requesting the info. I need from the Parking Violations Bureau.
Thanks to those who offered advice!
I will send out the FOI letter I generated and see what response I get.
Thanks to those who offered advice!
I will send out the FOI letter I generated and see what response I get.
You Are Guilty
Senior Member
State or city agency, it doesn't matter. As long as its a public authority, it falls under the ambit of the FOIL laws. Just massage the language of the form letter to make it fit. And once sent, it doesn't hurt to follow up several days later with a phone call to 1) make sure they received it, and 2) to get a handle on how long their response will take.
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