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isis297

Member
What is the name of your state? MD

How long do heirs that don't live on the property have before requesting rent be paid if half of the heirs lived on the property? Does there come a time when too much time has passed?

In trying to settle an estate, we took the approach that since rent was never requested the easiest thing to do is to take the expenses for the past however many years and split them in half. We look at it as one heir living off property would have only collected half a rent amount anyhow because the one heir living on property wouldn't have given their rent portion to the other. At the same time, the heir living off property would have been responsible for half the expenses...something they never paid on.

Is it not as simple as we are seeing it? One heir never paid rent so they would only get half their expenses back while the other heir never paid on expenses so it would be like a wash wouldn't it since there is no rent agreement to even go on?
 


Dandy Don

Senior Member
Has probate been done so that title to the property now reflects the names of all of the heirs or whoever it was willed to in the will?

One reason that heirs are reluctant to pay rent is that they feel they don't have to if they are part owners of the property.

The executor should be taking a survey amongst the heirs to see if they would be willing to sell the property and split the money amongst the heirs and also to see if the heirs currently living their would be willing to agree to a sale and move on or not.
 

isis297

Member
The estate has been opened. There was no will. My mom was made aware that the house was never probated when my great grandmother died in 1978. It is still in my great grandmother's name. My grandmother continued to live there after she died. Now that my grandmother has died, my mom is trying to get everything taken care of. Because there was no will, there are relatives involved that my family hasn't heard from in almost 40 years, since 10 years BEFORE my great grandmother died.

I understand according to MD law, the estate must be split between my grandmother's estate and the relatives' mother's estate (they were sisters) even though their mother died 10 years before my great grandmother. The thing is they are coming back saying they want rent for the past 30 years so my mom's lawyer had her put in for all of the expenses (taxes, repairs, etc.) for the past 30 years. The other relatives want her to accept 25% of the expenses countering that my grandmother never paid rent. Our argument is they never paid towards expenses so we feel the expenses should be split 50%.

My mom wants to go ahead to court thinking mediation is a waste because they already know what she wants and are refusing. The paralegal is telling her that she might go to court and get nothing. I can't see how that would happen because in our heads, this makes perfect sense plus she has all the receipts - all 30 years worth.

We know the house has to be sold and in the end, they will split whatever is left of the price of the house. The problem is that they are trying to get more in the name of rent which is why the whole expense issue came up. These other relatives are well off and would rather see my grandmother's estate walk away with nothing even if it means they don't get much either whereas it kills us enough to have to sell the house in the first place but to walk away with nothing too would really hurt us because my mom and grandma put so much of their money into the house.
 

isis297

Member
My mom was told (I'm not sure by whom at this point) that while the other relatives could go after my grandma's estate for rent, my mom could not go against them for expenses which makes no sense to me so they are telling her to be thankful for getting 25% of the expenses and sign the agreement. Do you agree?

I almost forgot! My mom is executor for the estate and was told that because the other relatives countered her accounting, she loses her PR fee. Is that true?
 
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anteater

Senior Member
My mom was told (I'm not sure by whom at this point) that while the other relatives could go after my grandma's estate for rent, my mom could not go against them for expenses which makes no sense to me so they are telling her to be thankful for getting 25% of the expenses and sign the agreement. Do you agree?
Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I would find it surprising if a judge did not tell the combatants to get all this nonsense about 30 years' worth of rent and expenses out of his/her courtroom and get on with probating great grandma's and grandma's estates. The attornies must be having a field day.

I almost forgot! My mom is executor for the estate and was told that because the other relatives countered her accounting, she loses her PR fee. Is that true
"Was told.... " By whom?
"..countered her accounting..." What does that mean?

Yeah, the other interested parties might challenge the compensation. At the end of the day, if they do, the court decides.

§ 7-601. Compensation of personal representative and special administrator.

(a) Right to compensation.- A personal representative or special administrator is entitled to reasonable compensation for services. If a will provides a stated compensation for the personal representative, additional compensation shall be allowed if the provision is insufficient in the judgment of the court. The personal representative or special administrator may renounce at any time all or a part of the right to compensation.

(b) Computation of compensation.- Unless the will provides a larger measure of compensation, upon petition filed in reasonable detail by the personal representative or special administrator the court may allow the commissions it considers appropriate. The commissions may not exceed those computed in accordance with the table in this subsection.

If the property subject to The commission may
administration is: not exceed:

Not over $20,000 ****************************************************************************************************************. 9%

Over $20,000 **********************************************************************..... $1,800 plus 3.6% of the
excess over $20,000


(c) Appeal.- Within 30 days a personal representative, special administrator, or unsuccessful exceptant may appeal the allowance to the circuit court, which shall determine the adequacy of the commissions and increase, but not in excess of the above schedule, or decrease them.
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
They have no legal basis to be retroactively asking for 30 years of back rent when they never had any type of rental agreement with the person who occupied the home!
 

isis297

Member
My Mom's attorney told her and apparently she talked to someone at the courthouse who said that her attornery will now get her PR fee.

Can you point me to where it says they have no grounds for rent? Having said that, technically there should be no exchange of rent or expense talk, right? That's where the discussion about the expenses came in. These relatives started freaking about getting back rent so out of fear they would walk away with the entire house's value which is what they said they felt they deserved, my mom's lawyer had her provide expenses for the past 30 years to try to make the blow not so bad. She has the receipts. Of course they flipped when they saw the expenses and sent her a letter saying they don't agree with the expenses and wanted her to take something like 20% of the expenses instead. They didn't want her to get anything from the sale of the house or anything. Now they are at this 25% offer and still split whatever is left. The lawyer is telling her that because of that letter/counter, he now gets her PR fee.
 

anteater

Senior Member
Just seeing if anyone has a reply as they want my mom to sign papers tomorrow. Thanks
If I had looked at your posting history before I replied, I probably would not have. But, having looked, all I can say is:

Your Mom and various attornies have had two years to make a hash out of this and you are coming to an internet message board for help the day before she is supposed to sign something?

By the way, I can understand why she may not have a commission coming. With all the attorney involvement, the attorney is likely gobbling up the maximum that the court would allow:

§ 7-602. Compensation for services of an attorney.

(a) General.- An attorney is entitled to reasonable compensation for legal services rendered by him to the estate and/or the personal representative.

(b) Petition.- Upon the filing of a petition in reasonable detail by the personal representative or the attorney, the court may allow a counsel fee to an attorney employed by the personal representative for legal services. The compensation shall be fair and reasonable in the light of all the circumstances to be considered in fixing the fee of an attorney.

(c) Considered with commissions.- If the court shall allow a counsel fee to one or more attorneys, it shall take into consideration in making its determination, what would be a fair and reasonable total charge for the cost of administering the estate under this article, and it shall not allow aggregate compensation in excess of that figure.
 

isis297

Member
I am sorry if it is a problem that I have been asking questions for too long. My mom got thrown into this without knowing what was in front of her and it was a very emotional situation. We were grieving my grandmother and then everything else as it came along and were doing our best, especially when I am not there to help being I live in a different state.

We have been given different advice by different attorneys as well as had attorneys working for her who literally sat on the estate for a year telling my mom he was actually doing things like trying to find the other relatives.

This is one of those cases where we do not feel that what is legally right and what is morally right go together and while it took longer than maybe you think it should have, my mom and I are at the point where we just want this over with. We had to get there but now that we are, we just want to sell the house and let these relatives lose themselves for another 40 years.

Having said that, I could not post about this particular situation any sooner than I did which was the day I found out about it (2 days ago).

Thank you for explaining that basically the lawyers get paid first. Looking at the other posts on here, it looks to me like there are a lot of things about probate that are kind of messed up. I will refrain from using this part of the forum in the future.
 

anteater

Senior Member
I am sorry if it is a problem that I have been asking questions for too long.....

Thank you for explaining that basically the lawyers get paid first. Looking at the other posts on here, it looks to me like there are a lot of things about probate that are kind of messed up. I will refrain from using this part of the forum in the future.
Maybe my wording and tone was bad. I did not intend to chase you away. But, you have a very complicated situation: unsettled estates from way back, long lost relatives. bouncing between attornies.... And you are pretty much once-removed from the details. An internet forum just isn't the place to tackle that.

Your mom probably should have stuck with the attorney that said the AWOL relatives had a screw loose. And, if she did not do so, she should have asked for the legal basis for the relatives' claims about rent. Too often, attornies are willing to try to negotiate something, even if the legal basis is shaky or non-existent, rather than battle it out in court. And, once a negotiation begins, it sometimes takes on a life of its own.
 

isis297

Member
I am sorry for getting upset and I do greatly appreciate your advice. This has just been going on so long as you saw and it has been emotionally draining on my mom and me. My mom is under so much stress she ended up having a heart attack last summer and was on life support!

She's trying to deal with a mess my grandmother didn't take care of nor did my great grandmother leave a witnessed will for. We have a hand written will signed by her but it wasn't witnessed so it doesn't count.

These people have been gone from our lives for so long that I could pass them on a street and not know who they are and vice versa because we have never seen each other. I am in my 30's.

We have never had to deal with estate stuff before and are trying to learn as we go because of the complexity of the case and the constant different stories we have been getting. We had been told by one that they had no basis because their mother died before their grandmother. I understand from the intestate chart that isn't true either but it's all research we have tried to do ourselves because we don't know who is right about anything.

The lawyer who said they had a screw loose was the one that sat on the estate for a year saying he tried tracking them down so that we could say we tried to find them. Another lawyer said even if they couldn't be found, their portion would have gone to the state then.

What really bugged me is that I found out from my research that because my grandmother lived in my great grandma's house for over 20 years with no word from these other relatives, she could have petitioned the court to have the deed put in her name. If we had known then all that we know now, I would have prompted her to do that. I have a challenged aunt that lived with my grandmother during this time and part of me doesn't understand why the house wouldn't just revert to her under the same idea even though the other relatives are around now.

As I said in past posts, it was just emotionally hard for us because we missed my grandmother and the thought of losing my great grandmother's house was very hard on us. That is where my mom and I celebrated all of our sacraments and special events growing up. Anyhow, it is what it now I guess.

Again, I do thank you for your help.
 

isis297

Member
I just wanted to let you know that it looks like they are going straight to court. After all of their complaining, the other relatives never sent the paperwork over for my mom to sign. All they sent was a one line paper saying they agree to what was discussed - no details whatsoever. My mom's lawyer is irritated and said to forget it that they are going straight to court - no mediation.

I don't understand what these people are trying to do. They aren't even going to attend from what I understand. They are sending their attorney in their behalf. I just wonder what the judge is going to think when they review this.

I think I'm going to head home for a trip when this is all over and take my mom out for a drink!!
 

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