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Does dissipation ever turn into theft?

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M

mdf

Member
What is the name of your state? CT

I understand that either spouse can dispose of marital property and it is not considered theft. I also have been told that if one spouse gives away marital property to a friend or relative that is also allowable. From what I've gathered, how it all plays out is a matter of dissipation of assets as a factor during settlement proceedings.

Is there any line drawn on this tho? In my sister's case, her husband has exclusive possession of the marital home. He pretended initially to want to settle fairly, then once he obtained the exclusive possession, refused to allow her on the property---even to acquire personal items. She's been to court three times, been granted a court order for access and the husband calls the police when she shows up. The police, of course, can't do anything because they don't enforce civil court orders.

The husband has given his mother complete access to the house (she does not live there) and she has been removing marital property (furniture and goods) to her own home, at her own discretion, even if her son isn't home. Is that still considered allowable under the marital property rules?

(btw, contempt orders are complete joke and do nothing. The courts do not do anything to enforce them---my sister has filed at least five, shown he violated, the court agrees and his punishment has been "don't do that." Her husband walks out of court literally laughing at her.)What is the name of your state?
 


M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
mdf said:
What is the name of your state? CT

I understand that either spouse can dispose of marital property and it is not considered theft. I also have been told that if one spouse gives away marital property to a friend or relative that is also allowable. From what I've gathered, how it all plays out is a matter of dissipation of assets as a factor during settlement proceedings.

Is there any line drawn on this tho? In my sister's case, her husband has exclusive possession of the marital home. He pretended initially to want to settle fairly, then once he obtained the exclusive possession, refused to allow her on the property---even to acquire personal items. She's been to court three times, been granted a court order for access and the husband calls the police when she shows up. The police, of course, can't do anything because they don't enforce civil court orders.

The husband has given his mother complete access to the house (she does not live there) and she has been removing marital property (furniture and goods) to her own home, at her own discretion, even if her son isn't home. Is that still considered allowable under the marital property rules?

(btw, contempt orders are complete joke and do nothing. The courts do not do anything to enforce them---my sister has filed at least five, shown he violated, the court agrees and his punishment has been "don't do that." Her husband walks out of court literally laughing at her.)What is the name of your state?
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You need to ask your attorney. I was just talking with my brother (an attorney) about that particular situation last night. His response was that while enforcement of contempt does vary from district to district, any half-way competent attorney knows whether the court is going to enforce things. In some cases, it's bad enough that it's not worth the effort. In others, there's a reason to do it even if you can't win because eventually the judge gets tired of writing contempt orders that are ignored and throws the book at them (it's usually not a good idea to alienate a judge). Ask the attorney what the situation is and if continued contempt filings are a waste of effort or if he's building a case to throw the book at the ex.

It's not clear if she got her share of the house equity. If not, tell the judge that he's not selling the house, so asking for her share of the proceeds in advance. She is entitled to half of the gain in value during the marriage. Presumably, they can estimate what that amount is. Go to court and say he's refusing to make any effort to sell the house, so she wants her money from him now.

I think she's going about it backwards, though. Show up at the house with a bunch of friends to get her stuff. When he calls the police, she's not asking them to enforce the order. Rather, she has a legal right to be on the property (show them the document). Then ask what grounds they have to prevent her from accessing her own property. They have to have some reason for keeping her out and I can't see how they can do that.
 
M

mdf

Member
Believe it or not--we've tried that. She has had three court orders to enter the premises. When she shows up, the cops are already there and he's claiming she's coming to assault him. She shows the cops the court order, he starts screaming at her to leave, the cops ask if she is currently living at the house, then order her to leave. They won't enforce the order because it's civil and tell her to go back to court. She's then gone to court all three times to on contempt motions. The judge in every instance has just re-issued the order to enter, no contempt. We understand from the attorney that this judge almost never actually cites anyone for contempt on the premise that if divorcing couples want to play games, let them pay for it. The frustration is my sister isn't playing the games--he is. He doesn't even show up for hearings, just his attorney and the judge STILL let's it slide. The husband then files restraining orders against two people who showed up to help her. They weren't granted, but the two people still had to show up at court.

She left the house with nothing but clothes and has not been inside in a year. It's being sold, closing on Monday, but he still won't let her near the house and is removing the entire contents to a storage facility that he won't identify. The proceeds are being held in escrow pending resolution.

Actually, a thought just occurs---his exclusive possession specifically cites the marital home address. Does that mean it doesn't apply to the storage place? Maybe we can get a court order to enter the storage facility when he's not there? She just wants her children's baby pictures and our mother's furniture (really---he was very controlling and she never was allowed to buy anything without his permission, which he never gave. All the other stuff in the house is what he decided they needed, and she literally doesn't want any of it).
 
M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
mdf said:
Believe it or not--we've tried that. She has had three court orders to enter the premises. When she shows up, the cops are already there and he's claiming she's coming to assault him. She shows the cops the court order, he starts screaming at her to leave, the cops ask if she is currently living at the house, then order her to leave. They won't enforce the order because it's civil and tell her to go back to court. She's then gone to court all three times to on contempt motions. The judge in every instance has just re-issued the order to enter, no contempt. We understand from the attorney that this judge almost never actually cites anyone for contempt on the premise that if divorcing couples want to play games, let them pay for it. The frustration is my sister isn't playing the games--he is. He doesn't even show up for hearings, just his attorney and the judge STILL let's it slide. The husband then files restraining orders against two people who showed up to help her. They weren't granted, but the two people still had to show up at court.

She left the house with nothing but clothes and has not been inside in a year. It's being sold, closing on Monday, but he still won't let her near the house and is removing the entire contents to a storage facility that he won't identify. The proceeds are being held in escrow pending resolution.

Actually, a thought just occurs---his exclusive possession specifically cites the marital home address. Does that mean it doesn't apply to the storage place? Maybe we can get a court order to enter the storage facility when he's not there? She just wants her children's baby pictures and our mother's furniture (really---he was very controlling and she never was allowed to buy anything without his permission, which he never gave. All the other stuff in the house is what he decided they needed, and she literally doesn't want any of it).
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Fine. Wait until he's at work and go into the house. Have a locksmith open the door if necessary.
 
T

tuffbrk

Senior Member
Is it me or does something sound "off" about this situation? Although the court order is from family court making it civil, in my state at least, you can request a "standby" from the police for removing your belongings to ensure that DV does not occur while removing the items.

I'm really just not understanding how the police would tell someone to leave the premises when they have a court order allowing them access. Further, the police do not have the right to order the person off of the premises because of the court order - it's not as if the person occupying the home could file trespassing charges. I'm lost here...Maybe next time your friend needs to demand that the shift supervisor come to the premises.
 
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tve

Junior Member
I am going through the same exact situation, how did your husband get SOLE POSSESSION of the marital home? Did you ask for it and the judge refused you? Why?
I am waiting on a judges decision right now and I will be devastated if I dont get my home back.

I also only have so many clothes, I dont have any of the childrens pictures and all of the furniture is mine from inheritance , etc...

Thanks!
 
M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
tuffbrk said:
Is it me or does something sound "off" about this situation? Although the court order is from family court making it civil, in my state at least, you can request a "standby" from the police for removing your belongings to ensure that DV does not occur while removing the items.

I'm really just not understanding how the police would tell someone to leave the premises when they have a court order allowing them access. Further, the police do not have the right to order the person off of the premises because of the court order - it's not as if the person occupying the home could file trespassing charges. I'm lost here...Maybe next time your friend needs to demand that the shift supervisor come to the premises.
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That's the way it sounds to me, too. Something doesn't fit. Maybe there's a restraining order or something else we don't know about?
 
T

tve

Junior Member
I do not have any restraining orders against me and I have called the police a thousand times and all they can do is ask the person that is in the house to let you in, they cannot make the person that is currently in the home let you in. They have to do it willingly.

The only way that you can get escorted in by the sheriff's dept. is if you have a restraining order against you and since I dont have that, I really cannot get in. I am waiting on the judges decision and it is an election year where I am so the judge is not making any decisions until after today (the vote day). So ridiculous!!!!
 
M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
tve said:
I do not have any restraining orders against me and I have called the police a thousand times and all they can do is ask the person that is in the house to let you in, they cannot make the person that is currently in the home let you in. They have to do it willingly.
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So what good does it do for him to call the police? Seems to me that he would know he's wasting his time by calling the police.

So why don't you get together 10 of your friends and go there to get your stuff - either while he's working or not? You have a legal right to get your things. I would make sure that one of those people keeps a close eye on everything that's going on so they can testify that you didn't take any of his things or damage the property.

But I still agree with the poster who says you need to talk with someone higher up. Talk to the chief of police if necessary. Or the supervisor.
 
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