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Minor with racing ticket

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teinmiata

Junior Member
I am a minor in California, and I got a ticket for what the cop called racing on a local canyon road back in February. I am at a loss as to what to do as so many people have been telling me so many different things.

First of all, I want to say not guilty, because it was in no way a race. I was on the road following my friend up to the point at which the cop was watching. We were admitably speeding, although the cop did not use radar and didn't say how fast I was going. We were not overtaking each other, we were not driving on the other side of the road, we were not tailgating each other, we had no intent of overtaking each other, and knew perfectly well who was going to get to the top first, we were just driving up fast in our lane. I am not sure how much of an argument I will have in juvenile court because from what I have heard the judge really doesn't listen to you without a lawyer.

I do not have a lawyer, although I tried to get one. My parents feel that a lawyer isn't needed, and do not want to pay the money for one due to our financial situation.

Here is more of the dilemma, my parents are saying that I should just plead guilty to try and make the court see how cooperative I am being, and to not stir up more trouble, but at the same time, I honestly wasn't racing, and want to argue my case.

I want to try and get an extension because I both A. need more time to prepare, and B. actually do have a major group project to do on the court date. The problem is that the court date is this Friday, and I just found out about the project today. Is to too late for an extension, or should I still try and go to the clerk's office(with my parents of course)? I got a letter from my teacher explaining the project and my situation and how I have to do it on Friday, hopefully this will help.

And yet another thing I heard about doing was transferring the case to a different court where they have a history of being more lenient, but again, I have no clue on how to do this.

Any help would be much appreciated for my fast approaching court date.
 


outonbail

Senior Member
What was the exact vehicle code you charged with breaking?
possibly 23109. (a)?

If so, here is the law you have been accused of breaking and the associated penalties:

23109. (a) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle speed
contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed
contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a
clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an
event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20
miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed
limits, is not a speed contest.
(b) A person shall not aid or abet in any motor vehicle speed
contest on any highway.
(c) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle exhibition of
speed on a highway, and a person shall not aid or abet in a motor
vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.
(d) A person shall not, for the purpose of facilitating or aiding
or as an incident to any motor vehicle speed contest or exhibition
upon a highway, in any manner obstruct or place a barricade or
obstruction or assist or participate in placing a barricade or
obstruction upon any highway.
(e) (1) A person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) shall
be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 24
hours nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than three
hundred fifty-five dollars ($355) nor more than one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment That person shall
also be required to perform 40 hours of community service. The court
may order the privilege to operate a motor vehicle suspended for 90
days to six months, as provided in paragraph (8) of subdivision (a)
of Section 13352. The person's privilege to operate a motor vehicle
may be restricted for 90 days to six months to necessary travel to
and from that person's place of employment and, if driving a motor
vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person's
employment, restricted to driving in that person's scope of
employment. This subdivision does not interfere with the court's
power to grant probation in a suitable case..


I'm sure that the court will give you at least one extension on entering a plea. You can ask the court clerk if he/she can grant the extension. If not, simply ask the judge and I'm sure he will give you another thirty days to decide what you wish to do.

If your going to fight it, which if your post is accurate, I would certainly do, then you will first appear in court to enter a plea.
Before you decide to just plead guilty, I would recommend first trying to speak to the DA handling your case and see if he is willing to make any kind of deal. The best probably being lowering the charge to excessive speed or something you could keep off of your record by signing up for traffic school. Depending on what the DA is willing to do, you may want to consider taking his deal and plead guilty.

If for some strange reason he doesn't budge and wants you to plead guilty to a speed contest, I would then plead not guilty. If you plead not guilty, you would then be given another court date to appear again in roughly thirty days. This gives you time to speak with an attorney and prepare for your case.

But a speed contest is not the same as a simple speeding ticket. The judge will most likely suspend your license and hit you with a heavy fine for racing on a public street.
A speed contest is a serious moving violation and you should do whatever you can to avoid such a charge from appearing on your driving record.
 

teinmiata

Junior Member
Well the thing is, this is a juvenile case, and as far as I understand there is not a DA, just the judge and me in a room. And if this is true that rules out trying to settle it with a DA. Also this changes the process as well (correct me if I'm wrong).
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Well the thing is, this is a juvenile case, and as far as I understand there is not a DA, just the judge and me in a room. And if this is true that rules out trying to settle it with a DA. Also this changes the process as well (correct me if I'm wrong).
Unless this was charged as an infraction, a DA will be involved unless Juvenile Probation is going to offer some form of diversion for a first offense.

As an infraction, this will be about $298 and a 2 point hit on your license.

If 23109, the police could have impounded you r car. Also note that a violation of this section does NOT require you be trying to pass anyone. What you describe (trying to keep up with a speeding buddy) IS a speed contest.

You might consider consulting local counsel if mom and dad will pay for it. If your parents are smart, they'll take away the keys to the car because you are likely to cost them a LOT more money on their insurance!


- Carl
 

teinmiata

Junior Member
If 23109, the police could have impounded you r car. Also note that a violation of this section does NOT require you be trying to pass anyone. What you describe (trying to keep up with a speeding buddy) IS a speed contest.
- Carl
They actually did impound the car for 30 days, but my parents talked to the sheriff and got it out of impound a little early.

And what if I was not trying to keep up but just following? Like I said there was no tailgating, just following up the road at a brisk pace. I think one of the factors that made things even worse was that my friend's car was on all season tires which made tons of noise around corners, while my car was not screeching at all. When the officer heard the tires screeching I think that further made him think that it was a race.

And I am not so clear on some of your terminology, what is the difference between an infraction and the other thing it may have been charged as? From what my parents were told by an officer and court, there isn't a DA, but if there is then I would definitely go and try and sort something out, because all the advice I have gotten has been to talk with the DA outside of court.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
What charges were on the citation you received? Look at the ticket and post the numbers/letters written in under "Charges" or "Violations". Then we will have a better idea of what you may be facing.

Also, just because you are a juvenile doesn't mean you will not be charged for violating the CVC. There is not one vehicle code for minors and one for adults. You have been given the privilege of driving and you must obey the same laws as everyone else, regardless of your age.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Here's a novel idea - finish your project a day early so you can be in court on Friday. :eek:

And I think your parents rock - imagine! Making a child take responsibility for his/her actions! You're going to pay for the increased insurance premium, right? Oh, assuming they didn't take your keys.
 

teinmiata

Junior Member
Yes the charge was 23109. It says racing/competition of speed on the ticket.

The project has to be done on Friday, but I want to get an extension anyways to prepare more for the court date, and to hopefully see the outcome of my friend's courtdate which is for the same charges.

And stealth, thanks for your opinions, but I came here for legal advice to help my case in court. I get plenty of moral lessons from my parents.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Yes the charge was 23109. It says racing/competition of speed on the ticket.

The project has to be done on Friday, but I want to get an extension anyways to prepare more for the court date, and to hopefully see the outcome of my friend's courtdate which is for the same charges.

And stealth, thanks for your opinions, but I came here for legal advice to help my case in court. I get plenty of moral lessons from my parents.
Well, you get a bonus with my input. :p

You've had since February to prepare, right? Shoot.... I'm just not a nice adult. Sorry. If I were the judge, I'd tell you ya had 6-8 weeks to prepare, so onstage, now. If I was your teacher, I'd tell ya hand it in Friday or fail. And if I was your parents..... gimme your keys, boy.

I've driven canyon roads in CA. I know people who've run in to kids like you and your buddy "not racing" on 'em. I'm not impressed.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
They actually did impound the car for 30 days, but my parents talked to the sheriff and got it out of impound a little early.
You got lucky.

I wouldn't have released it.

And what if I was not trying to keep up but just following? Like I said there was no tailgating, just following up the road at a brisk pace. I think one of the factors that made things even worse was that my friend's car was on all season tires which made tons of noise around corners, while my car was not screeching at all. When the officer heard the tires screeching I think that further made him think that it was a race.
This easily meets the definition of 23109.

And I am not so clear on some of your terminology, what is the difference between an infraction and the other thing it may have been charged as?
An infraction is punishable by a fine only ... a misdemeanor is a reportable criminal offense that can potentially have jail time (or juvenile hall time) attached.

If no DA will be assigned, it is likely going through juvenile probation or to traffic court. If traffic court, it is likely an infraction ... if juvenile probation, they are looking to work something out with you.

- Carl
 

teinmiata

Junior Member
You've had since February to prepare, right? Shoot.... I'm just not a nice adult. Sorry. If I were the judge, I'd tell you ya had 6-8 weeks to prepare, so onstage, now. If I was your teacher, I'd tell ya hand it in Friday or fail. And if I was your parents..... gimme your keys, boy.
And how happy I am that you are neither my judge, teacher, or parent. So please go back to your obviously unpleasant life.

And to those who have actually given me help and useful information, thank you. I got an extension to next Wednesday, and plan to try and prepare as much as I can.

Java, on the ticket misdemeanor and traffic are both marked, so does that mean that there should be a DA? Or does it still fall under one of the other two categories you already discussed?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Java, on the ticket misdemeanor and traffic are both marked, so does that mean that there should be a DA? Or does it still fall under one of the other two categories you already discussed?
Have you been assigned to a court on the ticket? Is it indicated as Superior, Juvenile, Traffic, or something else?

Or, has it been checked to go to Juvenile Probation?

There are some differences between counties in how juvenile cases are approached, so your county may not be the same as any I am used to.

- Carl
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Now I see that part on the ticket. It is marked as juvenile court.
Okay. In my county that would mean a DA would be present. In some counties, that first hearing may be with juvenile probation and a judge where they will try to come to some sort of an arrangement with you and your parents that will keep this from being a big deal.

I would still recommend you consult an attorney, but that would be up to your parents.

Uh ... did your parents take your license and your car? (As a parent of 3 boys - I would do so in a heart beat. My kids' license would be in the shredder, his car keys would be gone, and if the car were for his use alone, it would possibly be up for sale.)

- Carl
 

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