Permission to Search Ipod, Flash Drive, etc.

What is the name of your state? Maryland

This is just a question that popped into my head because of recent events at my school.

If you are taken to the principals or resource officers office, and are instructed to hand over your flash drive, ipod, etc. , do you have to? I mean if it is not visible or anything.

What are the laws on searching of electronic devices?

Any links or information would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Q: If you are taken to the principals or resource officers office, and are instructed to hand over your flash drive, ipod, etc. , do you have to? I mean if it is not visible or anything.

A: Yes.


Q: What are the laws on searching of electronic devices?

A: The fourth amendment to the constitution of the United States of America.



Q: Any links or information would be appreciated.

A: Google is your friend.

hah!

Thanks,

Did not really understand the laws on searching of electronic devices.


Now I feel like an idiot.

So I take it that an electronic device can be searched like anything that is just sitting in your pockets?

One more thing, if the device is encrypted or locked, do you have to give them the pass code?

If you are under 18 and it is the school searching you then the fourth amendment acts differently. The answer is generally yes, you have to turn anything that is asked for over to school officials or police on school grounds. Of course you can try to hide it, but that is up to you.

The handing over of encryption keys and passwords is another matter, and the best analogy is asking for the combination to a safe. I am not certain as to the laws about it, however truecrypt is your friend (hidden partitions, passwords that show a different partition, ect ect)

It will depend on the status of such law in your state, but in general the search of the contents of an iPod, flash drive, or even cell phone is not going to be permitted absent some very serious exigency. Yes, you may well have to present it if asked, but in most cases they are not going to have a legal right to search it.

- Carl

In regards to forcing someone to disclose a password in order to access data, this is an area that has not been fully litigated much at all. I'm not sure any state really has a clear authority established, and right now there is a huge controversy over a federal case where this exact issue has been raised. Check this out:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/15/AR2008011503663.html

Now a federal ruling, even one based on constitutional grounds like this, is not mandatory authority on State courts. But this is going to be a premiere case on the issue and you can bet that States will tend to go the direction that this case ultimately takes, and if this goes to the Supreme Court and they deem it a violation of the 5th amendment to force a suspect to disclose a password, than that is how it will be in every state. If the Sup. Court doesn't rule that way than States can still basically do what they like. Either way this is a case to watch.

Personally I do not consider it a violation of the 5th amendment (right not to incriminate oneself) to be forced to disclose a password. I liken the computer to a container and the password to a key.

I believe the reason turning over a password is considered a violation is because knowledge of a password shows dominion and control over the encrypted data. The password itself is not protected by the 5th, but the fact that you know it. (If that makes any sense.)

I agree, but the same is true with a literal lock and key yet you can compel a suspect to turn over the key, even if its the only key in existence. Having the key to the safe is pretty much admitting management or at least access to the contents.

What amazes me most is that there exists encryption software so good that the Feds can't crack it, and its that cheap and accessible to anybody.

Most everything can be decrypted, it's just a matter of resource management. How much computer time is this potential evidence worth?

As for me, I like the concept of privacy.

CavemanLawyer said:

What amazes me most is that there exists encryption software so good that the Feds can't crack it, and its that cheap and accessible to anybody.

Click to expand...

Everything is decrypt able because of brute force, I can try every single possible combination, eventually I'll get it right. The problem though is that if you have a key that is n digits long, I have to try (if I remember correctly) 10^n different combinations, 16^n if it is in hex. That number very quickly grows to be unmanageably large. Add in things like public key cryptography, death passwords, shadow volumes, and hashing passwords and it becomes ridiculously difficult.

I'm 17 and I took one computer science class, I'm going to college to become a CS major. I can (and have) written a program that can encrypt something and have it be physically impossible to decrypt without either the encryptor or the decryptor, it can't be brute forced reliably(although the file does grow to be 100x its original size). With the better programs you can't decrypt without the key, even if you have the encryptor and decryptor, but those can be brute forced open. (it might take a couple hundred years though)

tranquility said:

Most everything can be decrypted, it's just a matter of resource management. How much computer time is this potential evidence worth?

As for me, I like the concept of privacy.

Click to expand...

The Feds have been trying to crack this encryption ever since the incident. There have been several articles on this encryption program that have been written after this incident. Using brute force techniques it would take many lifetimes to decrypt, so the attempt would be useless.

The officer that initially saw the files very clearly saw many images of child pornography, but the computer was shutdown and now everything is locked up tight. Without bypassing the encryption there can be no prosecution. How important is this evidence? Well it is crucial to this case, but the possible ramifications are much broader. Imagine all the other child pornographers out there who hear of this software and start using it. It would make the crime almost impossible to prosecute.

I like security too, and I think this software is pretty damn incredible...but I wouldn't use it to hide illegal data. That's why I think the government should be able to compel someone to turn over a password if there is probable cause that it is being used to encrypt child pornography, for example.