Disregard Traffic Control Device by Speeding

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

I received a citation for "Failure to obey a traffic control device" (PA VC sec 3111 sub sec A). Nature of the offense is "Def did fail to obey a T.C.D. by traveling in excess of the posted speed limit"

I would like to start by saying that I was not speeding and I have no idea how the officer obtained my speed because he did not indicate on the ticket (but it couldn't have been radar because he wasn't a state trooper).

My question is can the officer prove that I was speeding? Again, he doesn't indicate anywhere on the ticket, nor did he tell me verbally, how he obtained my speed. I'm planning to plead not guilty but I have no idea how to prove that I wasn't speeding.

You can get a copy of the officer's notes via Discovery. If you do not know what Discovery is, then Google may be your friend.

Out of curiosity, what was the posted limit, and how fast were you going?

Edit: Also, I've never heard this rule that only state police use Radar.

Double Edit: I just looked into it (Google is indeed my friend) and have found that people in PA MISTAKENLY believe that only state troopers can use Radar, but in fact any local law enforcement may use it as long as it falls under guidelines set forth by the state agency.

To my knowledge Ephrata borough is the only borough that meets the state guidelines [ie they pay a fee to use the radar].

He said I was doing 38 in a 25.

I got pulled over in the same town supposedly doing 30 in a 15 [not a school zone, the speed limit really is 15] but the cop wrote it up as a disregard traffic control device, so I plead not guilty and he didn't show up.

When he pulled me over it seemed like he was searching for secondary offenses. He very closely inspected my suspicious looking soda bottle and said "Yeah, well, you never know with people these days." I guess I look shady lol

EDIT: Forgot to mention how fast I was going. I was in 4th gear taching 1500rpm which in my car is right around 30mph (I wasn't looking at the speedometer, I was only concernted with the RPMs because I've been driving in a higher gear when possible to save gas and it'd just be super embarrassing to stall in the middle of the street, ya know?]

I am not aware that any police other than state police that are authorized to use radar for speed enforcement in PA. If you are referring to the speed signs which use radar to display the speed as you are driving toward them then I do believe that local communities can use those (Ephrata happens to have one, or did). They are not for speed enforcement however.

The 3111 is generally used as your get out of jail free card (ie: get a break). The gov. gets their money and you get no points. I have however heard of locals using it to get money because people tend to just pay them more so than a regular speeding ticket.

Loulblades is correct PA State Police are the only ones authorized to use Radar on PA road and generally restricted to State highways since they generally do not have traffic jurisdiction on local roads. Not to say that Local police and PSP do not work together from time to time.

If you have any doubt about that this bulletin published by the PennDOT clearly states what is allowed to be used and by which police

http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol37/37-52/2422.html

Also people keep seeing the state legislators trying to update the current statute to allow locals to use Radar and their has been even mention of a trail period where those police forces who meet certain requirements can use Radar. None of these have been passed as of this day. One was schedule to go in to effect on July of 2008 and it too has not been approved. The PA state reps know it will only be used to generate revenue so many attempts in the last 10 yrs to change the rules has always failed.

Face it you got a road side discount, if in fact you were at least 10 over the limit since the police in PA can not write a ticket for less then 10 over. Also Visual Estimate is not allow in PA they must use one of the Approved Equipment from the above list. Unless he can back up you were in fact over the limit by one of the approved methods you ticket falls into one of those subjective tickets hard to prove.

Also in PA the officer being a no show is not an automatic dismissal. If you chose to fight, and the officer shows, then the officer has to show how he determined your speed, and if he used one of those road side speed sign, you got him, it is not in the approved list.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the info.

I believe PSP can actually ticket at 6mph over using radar. If radar is not used and the posted speed limit is less than 55mph then you have to be travelling in excess of 10mph over the speed limit.

I will have to do that discovery thing and find out if he documented how he got my speed.

Would it be correct to assume that if he did not document the method of determination then he can not prove that I disregarded a traffic control device (the speed limit sign)?

Your correct if you over 55 then they can ticket for being 6 over, however it has been my experience the PSP give you at least 11, they tend to be very reasonable, partly since they are paid by the state and not the local towns who get keep the fees from their tickets.

Also, Discovery is not an option in Traffic Cases in PA. You might want to try a freedom of information request since PA just updated its law a few months back to broaden what is allow under this type of request. Prior to this the police would not comply with an freedom of information requests nor would Judges allow a discovery request be made in summary cases.

Generally speaking in PA the officer is required to record on the ticket the method used to determine how the speed was measures, the equipment used and the Cal date. In order for him to substantiate the fact you were speeding he will have introduce into evidence how it was determined plus a number of other documents. Since it was not on the ticket, he will have to use something else like his notes.

Someone who knows what to do, can get this tossed possibly, but as Loulblade indicated most people do not fight this $100 ticket since it does not include the points since this is what most people worry about in PA.

If you like more information Just PM me here and I'll send you a link to all the information you need to educate yourself.

I believe that regardless of whether or not there are points it will still show up on my driving record. I'm planning to change car insurance this summer because I'm moving out of my dad's house and I don't want to get stuck with an even higher premium (I'm paying $1200/yr with a clean record).

Your correct, there is no guaranty it will not show up. Only tickets with points are required to be reported to the state and only those with point associated with them are suppose to affect your insurance in PA. However, does not mean if your record is checked and a non point ticket shows up the insurance company will not take that into consideration and there is no way for you to know for sure they didn't. Well insurance companies if asked they have to share all the information they used to determine your rates, but at that point it is too late if you have a ticket showing up.

That is why it is always good to fight them... BTW you didn't happen to get the ticket between April 7 and the 20, PA was running stepped up enforcement during that period.

No I got this ticket 5/10/08.

I got a legitimate speeding ticket between those dates though...but I was speeding and there's not much else to say about that lol