Property damaged. Who's responsible?

What is the name of your state? WI

This question has so many factors, so I hope this is the correct section to ask it.

I am a homeowner and have lived at my current address for the past 9 years. Next door is a house that is being rented out. Living there are a woman and a 9 year old girl. The mother does a terrible job of supervising her daughter and lets her pretty much do anything, and she does just that. Therefore, I have to keep an eye on her whenever she's outside. I've caught her in the act of attempted theft and vandalism on my property and was able to stop most of it. However, last night I caught her and 4 of her friends jumping up and down and stomping on a concrete area that runs between the 2 houses (the houses are close together) until the concrete gave way and collapsed. The ground beneath the concrete had eroded away in the past, so now there is a 3' by 2.5' wide hole there that is a safety hazard. She showed the hole to her mother, saying it was "awesome!" Her mother didn't seem to think much of it and went back in the house. So then her daughter and friends continued breaking up the concrete while I was watching them. I had thought the mother was going to put a stop to it, but that didn't happen. I banged on the wall to let the kids know I was watching them and noting what they were doing. Usually they run away when they see me, but not this time. (I can't go out and discipline other peoples' kids, and I didn't want to get into a confrontation with the neighbor).

Today, I contacted the landlord of that house and had him come over and I showed him the damage. Immediately, he said "Nah, those kids couldn't have done this". I said, "I was right there", as I pointed to the window I was watching them through, "and I saw them do it." He just kept repeating to me that there was no way they could have done it. He was flat out calling me a liar! Then he told me that rain water would end up in my basement when it rained, and that the repair would benefit me more than him. I took this to mean he wanted me to pay at least part of the repair bill. Problem is, the hole is on their side of the property line, and the damage was done by the tenant's daughter (and I was an eyewitness to this). After talking to this landlord, I then felt I was going to have some problems with this situation, so I contacted the police who said this is a civil matter and that I should look for some advice either from a free legal organization or the internet. Well, here I am! Anyone here have any suggestions on what my next move should be, if any?

Torellian said:

Problem is, the hole is on their side of the property line, and the damage was done by the tenant's daughter (and I was an eyewitness to this).

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So, let me get this straight...
You are complaining about who is responsible for the next door neighbor destroying THEIR property? Ok, just wanted to clarify THAT.

Until you have damages, this is none of your business. Even after you have damages, you will have a tough time assigning blame to the neighbor.

Since the kids were on THEIR property and damaged THEIR property, you really had (and have) no place getting involved in a matter that is between the tenant and the LL.

But remember, the landlord said that when the damage is repaired, they will have to tear up MY side as well, and the fact that the landlord doesn't believe me about the kids' actions, he seems to be indicating that I will be responsible for paying for what he tears up on my side, even though the whole repair project will be the result of damage done by his tenant. That doesn't sound right to me. If the tenant caused the damage, and it results in repair work needed on my property, the landlord or the tenant is responsible for paying for it. Don't you think so?

Ever hear of concrete cutters?
Why would they need to tear up YOUR side?

Actually, I haven't. But it's good to know that they may not have to tear up my side in that case.

What really gets me is that this guy automatically dismissed my accusation against his tenant and treated me like I'm a liar. I'm a homeowner who could be someone who would be able to sue him for actions of his tenants, and therefore, he should be going to them and telling them to shape up and stop causing problems. At the very least, he should come up with an offer of some kind of settlement in order to avoid problems. He's really off to a bad start with his neighbor, in this case.

you do not get to tell a person how they should be acting. If they injure you in some way, you get to let the court tell them but other than that, it really isn;t any of your business.

apparently the LL feels the same way.

justalayman said:

you do not get to tell a person how they should be acting. If they injure you in some way, you get to let the court tell them but other than that, it really isn;t any of your business.

apparently the LL feels the same way.

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I didn't tell him how he should be acting. And what do you mean that it's none of my business? He calls me a liar, and now expects me to foot at least half the bill (which could run over $1,000). Believe me when I say that this does indeed affect me.

Until it costs you money, what happened is really none of your business. I'm not saying ignore it but it just does not affect you at this time so, it is none of your business. You came he talking about having to tear up your side of the walk, or whatever this is, and you do not even understand that concrete can be sawn. If nothing on your side is damaged, then his side can be cut free and replaced without even bothering your side.

I didn't tell him how he should be acting.

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You expressed her how you believe he should be acting.

he should be going to them and telling them to shape up and stop causing problems. At the very least, he should come up with an offer of some kind of settlement in order to avoid problems. He's really off to a bad start with his neighbor, in this case.

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Again, this is none of your business. They have not caused you any problems, yet. When they do, then jump on him for things but until then......

well, I'm sure you get it by now.

Maybe you should get a hobby. You seem obsessed with the family next door. If you saw the daughter's attempt at vandalism and theft, you should have called the police.

Watching kids jump up and down on the concrete with such absorption that you even heard the daughter tell the mother that the resultant hole was "awesome," then continuing to watch them seems a little bizarre.

Hot Topic said:

Maybe you should get a hobby. You seem obsessed with the family next door. If you saw the daughter's attempt at vandalism and theft, you should have called the police.

Watching kids jump up and down on the concrete with such absorption that you even heard the daughter tell the mother that the resultant hole was "awesome," then continuing to watch them seems a little bizarre.

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Some clarification is needed here. You should know that in the area of town where I live, the houses were built a long time ago (late 1800s) and are very close together. Between my house and this neighbor's house is about 6 feet of space. This, plus the fact that my window was open now that the weather has warmed up, makes it very easy to hear what someone is saying, and see what they are doing. I was not watching them with what you call "such absorption".

Also, if you knew from past experience that your neighbor routinely let her kid go into your yard and didn't keep an eye on them to make sure they weren't doing wrong, and you are constantly finding damage done to your property, and things missing, and have personally witnessed them doing damage and theft, wouldn't you be keeping a close eye on what they do? (Especially when the mother won't). Also, keep in mind that the police will want to know if you actually saw the incident take place. If I can say that I did, it gives me alot more credibility than if I say, "Well, no. But I've seen them doing it before, and so they probably did it."

Finally, I did call the police and filed a report. The officer told me that no crime was committed and that it's a civil matter. He also contacted the Health Department who sent someone to look at the damage. Today, I got a letter from them saying that my property is violation of safety codes.

To be fair, it was already in somewhat poor condition, and it's been the exact same way and has been acceptable for the past 9 years. It was the neighbor's actions that has caused it to go from somewhat poor condition to "destroyed condition".

I can see how someone might say that if something is in poor condition, it should be fixed or replaced. But what if something is in only "less than best condition" and a neighbor comes along and bangs on it, or kicks it or whatever until it is destroyed? That just seems to be the case here. Before the kid's actions, it didn't need to be fixed. I can just imagine what would be said if one day they decide to start hammering on my fence until boards are knocked off. I can imagine being told, "Well, your fence obviously wasn't strong enough and needed to be fixed anyway", thereby justifying the action. It really puts a property owner at a legal disadvantage to those who have no regard for others' property.

A slab of concrete will NOT break because of a few kids jumping up and down. Your walk was, apparently, on its "last legs", so to speak.