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Property Rights for Vehicle

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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Illinois

During the marriage, STBX and i purchased a vehicle and her grandfather co-signed on the loan. Obviously, we both had our own Keys, and he has taken hers and states that he will give it back, if i refinance the vehicle, or pay it off, but until then he's holding it"in case he has to take it back" Her attorney is also advocating this position, even though I have never missed a payment, and have been the sole operator, and maintained the insurance on the vehicle since it was bought 2 years ago.

His name is NOT on the title, myself AND STBX, and the Bank is listed as the Leinholder. It is registered and driven in the state of Arizona, and I have a signed and notarized document from her releasing claim to the vehicle by STBX. My question is, since he is not on the title of the vehicle, and is basically holding my property ransom, is this criminal theft, and if so, are there also repercussions for her attorney advocating this situation?
 


LdiJ

LdiJ

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
What is the name of your state? Illinois

During the marriage, STBX and i purchased a vehicle and her grandfather co-signed on the loan. Obviously, we both had our own Keys, and he has taken hers and states that he will give it back, if i refinance the vehicle, or pay it off, but until then he's holding it"in case he has to take it back" Her attorney is also advocating this position, even though I have never missed a payment, and have been the sole operator, and maintained the insurance on the vehicle since it was bought 2 years ago.

His name is NOT on the title, myself AND STBX, and the Bank is listed as the Leinholder. It is registered and driven in the state of Arizona, and I have a signed and notarized document from her releasing claim to the vehicle by STBX. My question is, since he is not on the title of the vehicle, and is basically holding my property ransom, is this criminal theft, and if so, are there also repercussions for her attorney advocating this situation?
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You want your stbx's grandfather to remain responsible for the loan on your car...when you are divorcing? You want to criminally prosecute him for holding on to a key to the car when all he is doing is trying to protect himself in case you default on the loan? Would you consider it acceptable for YOUR grandfather to have to remain responsible for a debt of your ex's?

Dude, just refinance the danged thing. Or if you absolutely cannot do that then let him hold the key. Don't be a jerk about the whole thing. He did you a huge favor by co-signing for the loan. Don't repay that favor by being a jerk.
 
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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
I don't think the flame was necessary, but yes...his name is staying on the loan... I'm not sure if you've been divorced before but refinancing a vehicle during that time is not an option.... and holding the keys to the vehicle is not "protecting himself". The only remedy is held by the bank, and/or civil court case if i were to default on the payments. If he used that key to come get the vehicle, he would be arrested for Grand Theft Auto in the state of Arizona.

This is why you don't co-sign..but that's kind of irrelevant at this point. The question I had asked was regarding the legality in court proceedings and with regards to her attorney. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
 
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mistoffolees

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
I don't think the flame was necessary, but yes...his name is staying on the loan... I'm not sure if you've been divorced before but refinancing a vehicle during that time is not an option.... and holding the keys to the vehicle is not "protecting himself". The only remedy is held by the bank, and/or civil court case if i were to default on the payments. If he used that key to come get the vehicle, he would be arrested for Grand Theft Auto in the state of Arizona.

This is why you don't co-sign..but that's kind of irrelevant at this point. The question I had asked was regarding the legality in court proceedings and with regards to her attorney. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
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You got your answer. As co-signer on the loan, he has an interest in it. His keeping the key is not intrusive to you in any way. If he starts coming over to your house and driving the car all the time, you MIGHT have a complaint.

Drop it. He's got every right to protect his interest. You should be thankful he's not insisting that the car be sold.
 
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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
Well, i must post for anyone else that reads this forum... RUN.... these people are ignorant in law.... I just got off the phone with an attorney, and they said that if someones name is NOT on the TITLE of the vehicle... they have NO interest in the eyes of the law. Co-signing is irrelevant.

guess i can't complain too much for free advice though. Thanks anyways
 
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mistoffolees

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
Well, i must post for anyone else that reads this forum... RUN.... these people are ignorant in law.... I just got off the phone with an attorney, and they said that if someones name is NOT on the TITLE of the vehicle... they have NO interest in the eyes of the law. Co-signing is irrelevant.

guess i can't complain too much for free advice though. Thanks anyways
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You need to step back and try to understand the difference between what is fair and what you can manipulate the system to selfishly obtain for yourself.
 
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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
Im not manipulating the system. This is my property, and i need the spare. Get over yourself, and stop giving out answers you don't understand. You could be hurting people with the falsities.
 
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penelope10

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
Im not manipulating the system. This is my property, and i need the spare. Get over yourself, and stop giving out answers you don't understand. You could be hurting people with the falsities.
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No it's not your property. Yet. Spouse's GP co signed the loan. He has a legal interest in the property as the co signer. He is not a party to your divorce. He has no legal obligation to make your life easier.

Refinance the car if you want to be 100% owner after the car is paid off. If you can't tough. Live with it.
 
Ohiogal

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
monkeyelvis said:
Im not manipulating the system. This is my property, and i need the spare. Get over yourself, and stop giving out answers you don't understand. You could be hurting people with the falsities.
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Prepare for grandpa to go to court and sue you.
 
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penelope10

Senior Member
Ohiogal said:
Prepare for grandpa to go to court and sue you.
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And be prepared to lose. Let me further elaborate. GP name may not appear on the TEMPORARY title that you hold. It could be as simple as the bank or the tax office made a clerical error effecting how the TEMPORARY title appears/whose names the title was issued in. Bet ya dollars to donuts that GP has a copy of the loan doc he signed. Bettcha your signature is on the loan as well. So just because GP name is not on the title does not mean he does not have a legal interest. So you can stop doing your happy dance thinking you can pull something off because GP's name isn't on the TEMPORARY title.
 
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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
@Penelope - clearly it is YOU who does not understand a thing when it comes to titling a vehicle. I have seen the title (the bank faxed me a copy when they confirmed that he was not on the title in their possession, and while he has co-signed, unless i fall behind on payments he has NO LEGAL INTEREST in the vehicle. This is the law. Get your facts straight and stop spouting off mis-information because you don't like where. So far everyone that has posted here is completely ignorant on the law and the facts. For the interest of others who may read this, you should stop doing so and thinking you know what you're talking about, because you have all proven that you haven't a clue.

Just as a side note for those who don't know... in order to change the names on a title when it's listed as an "AND" title, BOTH have to sign for any change, so .. there really is nothing that can be done to change it short of a lawsuit, which GP will lose handily without proof of financial irresponsibility, and there is none of that.
 
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penelope10

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
@Penelope - clearly it is YOU who does not understand a thing when it comes to titling a vehicle. I have seen the title (the bank faxed me a copy when they confirmed that he was not on the title in their possession, and while he has co-signed, unless i fall behind on payments he has NO LEGAL INTEREST in the vehicle. This is the law. Get your facts straight and stop spouting off mis-information because you don't like where. So far everyone that has posted here is completely ignorant on the law and the facts. For the interest of others who may read this, you should stop doing so and thinking you know what you're talking about, because you have all proven that you haven't a clue.

Just as a side note for those who don't know... in order to change the names on a title when it's listed as an "AND" title, BOTH have to sign for any change, so .. there really is nothing that can be done to change it short of a lawsuit, which GP will lose handily without proof of financial irresponsibility, and there is none of that.
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Is his name on the loan docs? If so he can request that the title be corrected to reflect his name as well. He does not need your permission to be added.

You do realize that all he needs are the loan docs to show that he has a legal interest in the vehicle should he go to court. The title means nothing. The bank owns the car. The loan is in your name, spouses name, with GP as co signer. And he is not taking the car away from you genius. He is holding the keys as security should you fall behind on the payments. So that he can pick up the car.
 
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monkeyelvis

Junior Member
I already asked that question to 3 separate attorneys so far, and all have stated that the title the bank holds cannot be changed without both (regardless of what the loan documents say) my signature or STBX, or imminent repossession of the vehicle. Where are you getting your facts Penelope?
 
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penelope10

Senior Member
monkeyelvis said:
I already asked that question to 3 separate attorneys so far, and all have stated that the title the bank holds cannot be changed without both (regardless of what the loan documents say) my signature or STBX, or imminent repossession of the vehicle. Where are you getting your facts Penelope?
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And you aren't getting the facts---he has a legal interest in the car. He signed paperwork stating that the bank could go after him should the loan go into default. Hence he has legal interest in the car. He has legal interest because he signed the CONTRACT. As well as you and your spouse.

He isn't taking the car away from you. He's keeping a set of keys as security should payments not be made. And frankly he's within his rights to do so if his grand daughter volunteers to give him her set of keys.
 
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