Incorrect Speed Limit on my citation

What is the name of your state? Arizona. I was issued a citation last night. The offcier pulled me over and stated "you know you were speeding, right?" Before I could respond, he went on to explain to me that the legal speed limit on the frontage road I was on was 45 miles per hour. He went on further, and explained that he had to accelerate his patrol car to about 65 or 70 mph just to catch up with me. I told him that I did not realize that I was speeding, and no, I didn't know the speed limit was 45 mph.

ANYWAY, he cited me for travelling approximately 55 mph in a POSTED 45 mph zone, and that the "Reasonable & Prudent speed was 50 mph. He explained that he was only writing me for 5 mph over the limit so I wouldn't have to pay a very high fine. I guess he was expecting me to thank him.

Upon reviewing the citation, I noticed that he listed the model year of my car as a 2000, (it is a 2007)...no big deal.

Upon arriving at my home, I told my son about my newly aquired gift from the county, and he told me I should fight the ticket in court. Well. I have never done this before, (I have only received 2 other tickets in my 27 years of driving). I asked why I should do this. If the officer said I was speeding, he certainly would not make that up? My son then informed me that the CORRECT SPEED limit on the frontage road was 50 mph, NOT the 45 mph the officer had written on the citation. I checked the frontage road this morning, and sure enough, it is a 50 mph zone, and not the 45 the officer had noted on the citation.

I called the officers supervisor to advise him of the apparant error. He said he would speak to the officer and get back to me. He then called me back and simply left me a voice mail. He said he had his officer do "some research", and that the road was in fact a 45 mph zone, and not a 50 mph zone as I had indicated. He also said that it was my choice to explain my side of the story to the judge, and let the judge decide.

I went back to the road, and sure enough, the 50 mph sign is still there, and NOWHERE on the frontage road does it have any other speed limit posted, just the initial 50 mph sign once you enter the fronage road.

I don't think I was speeding, the speed limit the officer wrote on the citation was incorrect by 5 mph, and he cited me for 5 mph over.

Am I crazy? Should I fight this with photographic evidence of the posted signs, or am I just wasting my time and energy?

Um, so let me get this straight: the officer said he was citing you for 5 over the speed limit for traveling 55mph, and you're stating the the speed limit was 50. How is that any different from what the officer cited you for??

The citation the officer wrote stated the following:

APPROXIMATE SPEED: 55

POSTED SPEED LIMIT: 45

REASONABLE & PRUDENT SPEED: 50

Basically, the Officer stated he was citing me for 5 mph over the Reasonable & Prudent speed of 50 mph.

If the "reasonable and prudent speed in a 45 mph zone is 50 mph, wouldn't the same hold true for a 50 mph zone?

I guess my point is that it is a 50 mph zone and not a 45 mph zone like he wrote on the citation.

You're right, go to court and argue that the officer incorrectly cited you for 5 over in a 45, when really you were going 5 over in a 50; see what happens in court.

Many thanks for your snobish, sarcastic answer. You have been very helpful. I'm sure that since you know more than everyone else on this site, your entitled to be as sarcastic as humanly possible.

Thank you.

Any time .

It isn't clear to me what exactly you were cited for. I know the officer said he was citing you for 5 over the reasonable and prudent speed but what does the specific violation code relate to? You need to know AZ law. My question specifically is, does the violation you were cited for allow the officer to note the "reasonble and prudent speed" in his or her judgement and then cite you for how much you exceed that speed? The reason I ask is that usually speed limits are upper bounds, a cop can decide because of conditions that you should be travelling at something less than the speed limit but I have never heard of a cop having the discretion to decide that the speed limit really should be something higher and cite you against that higher limit, but again I don't know how things work in AZ. The important thing to look for is how are the penalties calculated, are the fine, points, etc. based on the speed limit or on the higher reasonable and prudent speed the officer determined.

Having said all that, I would probably fight it in any case. I don't think you can argue that since the cop picked 50 and the actual speed limit is 45 you get to add on 5 to the actual speed limit of 50 - I am sure the cop would say that he determined the 50 based on trafffic, conditions, etc., not on his belief about the speed limt. The better argument is that he admitted it was an approximate speed. There must be some margin of error in his approximation - if the actual speed limit was 45 you would have trouble arguing that there is a good chance he was off by 10 mph in estimating your speed but I don't think it is such a stretch that he was off by 5 mph.

I would check to see if there is any mechanism in AZ (freedom of info act or discovery) that would let you get copies of the officer's notes. You should get those if you can and see what they tell you.

It doesn't matter what the officer said to the OP, all that matters, as you correctly pointed out, was what, exactly, the OP was cited for.

I understand everything that has been presented here. One of my questions, that I apparantly did not ask clearly enough:

Does the officer have the ability to raise the "Reasonable & Prudent" speed OVER the actual posted speed limit?

I know that they can LOWER the R&P limit due to weather conditions etc., but I am not aware that the R&P can be "RAISED" to over the actual posted limit.

As the citation reads, I was cited for going 5mph over the R&P speed of 50 mph, and the actual posted limit was 45 mph, hence anyone reading the citation would read that the travelling speed was really 10 over, and I was only cited for 5 mph over.

The actual situation: I was cited for going 5mph over the ACTUAL posted speed of 50mph, (not the written 45 mph), and therefore was not afforded ANY consideration of speedometer error on my vehicle.

IF I was travelling only 5mph over the limit of 50 mph, should I have been stopped to begin with?

I realize that LEGALLY you can be pulled over for going 1 mph over; however, police departments do in fact allow a certain margain of error of between 7 to 10 mph over the limit.

In closing, my 2 biggest questions have been:

1.) Should I have been stopped to begin with?

2.) Can the officer RAISE the R&P speed OVER the legal posted limit?


Thanks for all of your help.

jeffryd123 said:

1.) Should I have been stopped to begin with?

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Not really a legal question. Officers may stop whomever they want if they suspect a violation, such as speeding (which you admitted was the case) is in progress.

2.) Can the officer RAISE the R&P speed OVER the legal posted limit?

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Irrelevant question. You've admitted you were going 5 over the limit, and that's what you were cited for. If you provide what you were charged with (we want the actual statute number here), then some more information might be gleamed.

The Occultist said:

Not really a legal question. Officers may stop whomever they want if they suspect a violation, such as speeding (which you admitted was the case) is in progress.

Irrelevant question. You've admitted you were going 5 over the limit, and that's what you were cited for. If you provide what you were charged with (we want the actual statute number here), then some more information might be gleamed.

This is a public forum, and you'll get the responses you get.

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1.) I have admittred NOTHING...

2.) Again, I have admitted NOTHING.

2a.) The statute is Arizona Revised Statute 28-701a:
28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions

A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.

B. Except as provided in subsections C and D of this section or except if a special hazard requires a lesser speed, any speed in excess of the following speeds is prima facie evidence that the speed is too great and therefore unreasonable:

1. Fifteen miles per hour approaching a school crossing.

2. Twenty-five miles per hour in a business or residential district.

3. Sixty-five miles per hour in other locations.

C. The speed limits prescribed in this section may be altered as authorized in sections 28-702 and 28-703.

D. The maximum speed provided in this section is reduced to the speed that is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and with regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including the following conditions:

1. Approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad crossing.

2. Approaching and going around a curve.

3. Approaching a hillcrest.

4. Traveling on a narrow or winding roadway.

5. A special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

E. A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions.

2c.) I believe the correct term is "GLEANED" and not "GLEAMED" as you have so incorrectly written.

3.) You seem to be the ONLY SARCASTIC child here on this "Public forum"...

Maybe I'm missing something, but the ticket said you were going 55 which is speeding no matter wether the posted limit is 45 or 50. If you were arguing that you weren't going that fast maybe, but arguing that the crime you comitted isn't as bad as the one you were cited for seems weak!

jeffryd123 said:

2c.) I believe the correct term is "GLEANED" and not "GLEAMED" as you have so incorrectly written.

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Good for you, you found a mistake of mine, and pointed it out. You get a gold star.

3.) You seem to be the ONLY SARCASTIC child here on this "Public forum"...

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I can assure that that just isn't true. Either way, whether or not you appreciate the method in which I have given you the advice, I have indeed given you legally accurate advice. You can groan about it all you like, but nothing you've presented here will be any sort of defense against the charges. Perhaps an experienced traffic attorney that knows what the courts like to hear could help you out, or perhaps the prosecutor will drop charges because he may not feel the case is worth it. But, do whatever you want. I'm done offering you advice, sarcastic or otherwise. You're welcome

Look if you want to fight the ticket, focus on the officer ability to measure your speed, it sounds like he attempted to pace you. Oh, him saying he had to speed to 65 or 70 to catch up is irrelevant since two cars going at the same speed would never approach each other so depending on how quickly he wanted to close the gap would dictate how fast he would have to be going. If you were gong 50 and he could have gone 55 to catch up but that could take time, so going 65 or 70 just got him there sooner so it has no barring on your actual speed you could have been going 25 and a half mile ahead of him and saying he had to go 65 or 70 does not prove you were speeding. Plus you can not pace while accelerating, people do not have the ability to measure change in speed over change in time.

Next if what you are saying he wrote 45 PSL and it was actually 50 PSL just throughs more doubt on his ability to know what he was doing, obviously his situational awareness in this case was off.

Look, just take picture of the area show the PSL was in fact 50 not 45 like the officer wants everyone to believe and then attack his ability to actually determine your speed was actually 55 and not 50 and how 50 was not reasonable and prudent. The only way it was not reasonable and prudent is if he can show there was something going on at that section of the road requiring a lower speed like too much traffic, wet roads or an accident.

Use his mistakes against him.

Maestro...thank you for the rational explanation you have provided. I believe it will be helpful.