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Ticket in CA for 22101(d)

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wazup7156

Junior Member
I was recently driving in beautiful Pacifica, CA and got a ticket. I wanted to see what other people thought about this situation and what I can do about it/if what the officer did was legal.

I was driving to a meeting with my business partner, who was supposed to be giving me directions. I came to this intersection, http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/6/11/f_Snapshot200m_ce97085.jpg . I was where the car is at the stop sign. I needed to go right, but I had missed the little divider. We were late to the meeting and I had never been here before so I was a little frantic. I could see the cop behind me, but I turned my blinker on to try and turn right onto the street. A car was coming towards me going onto the same ramp (they didn't have a stop sign). They stopped for me and waved me on and I proceeded to turn right onto the street. Instantly the cop pulled me over. He came up to the car and said that he pulled me over because the other car didn't have a stop sign. I told him I had never been here before, we were late, and that I had my blinker on and made eye contact with the other driver and he waved me on. He asked for my insurance and I gave him one that was a month or two expired (I was unaware). He said "OK, well I am going to just write you up for the expired insurance." He went to his car and wrote the ticket. While he was doing that, another policeman joined him and they wrote the ticket for about 10 minutes. He came back and said "Ok, when you get your insurance just bring it in. Can you sign here?" I signed and then later looked at the ticket, he had written me a ticket for 22101(d) and wrote "turn sign." I was completely caught off guard. I had no idea why he would mislead me like that, and what this 22101(d)- turn sign meant. There were no signs of any sort saying no turn and I had my turn signal on. I went to the station where they had him come down as my business partner and I talked to him. He said that he wrote me a ticket because the guy coming the other way didn't have a stop sign and that the turn I made was illegal. When my partner asked why he didn't explain anything of this to us, he got irate, turned to him and said, "First off you aren't the driver so you can't say anything, and second I can do what I want!" He then went on to say to me, "If you want I can give you another ticket for the insurance. Would you like that?"

My question is two part. First, is the turn I made illegal? At an intersection like the one in the picture, are you allowed to turn right if you missed the island (if it is safe to do so)? And furthermore, is there a law that requires the officer to explain what he is issuing a ticket for? I feel like there are laws out there to protect the people from things like this, I had no idea what I was issued a ticket for, it just does not seem fair at all.

Any help or suggestions would be extremely helpful, thank you.
 


occharge

Member
I was where the car is at the stop sign.
You mean the truck, just before the "Stop sign".

My question is two part. First, is the turn I made illegal?
CVC Section 22101 states:
22101. (a) The Department of Transportation or local authorities in respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, may cause official traffic control devices to be placed or erected within or adjacent to intersections to regulate or prohibit turning movements
at such intersections.
(b) When turning movements are required at an intersection notice of such requirement shall be given by erection of a sign, unless an additional clearly marked traffic lane is provided for the approach to the turning movement, in which event notice as applicable to such additional traffic lane shall be given by any official traffic control device.
(c) When right- or left-hand turns are prohibited at an intersection notice of such prohibition shall be given by erection of a sign.
(d) When official traffic control devices are placed as required in subdivisions (b) or (c), it shall be unlawful for any driver of a vehicle to disobey the directions of such official traffic control devices.


The picture doesnt show what signs are posted but I would assume that there is a "no right turn" sign posted at that corner where you turned. If that is the case then yes, it is illegal.

And furthermore, is there a law that requires the officer to explain what he is issuing a ticket for? I feel like there are laws out there to protect the people from things like this, I had no idea what I was issued a ticket for, it just does not seem fair at all.
Im not touching that one!!! Dont dispair though, there will be a few who will!
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I was recently driving in beautiful Pacifica, CA and got a ticket. I wanted to see what other people thought about this situation and what I can do about it/if what the officer did was legal.
For reference, here is the law:

22101. (a) The Department of Transportation or local authorities in
respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, may cause
official traffic control devices to be placed or erected within or
adjacent to intersections to regulate or prohibit turning movements
at such intersections.
(b) When turning movements are required at an intersection notice
of such requirement shall be given by erection of a sign, unless an
additional clearly marked traffic lane is provided for the approach
to the turning movement, in which event notice as applicable to such
additional traffic lane shall be given by any official traffic
control device.
(c) When right- or left-hand turns are prohibited at an
intersection notice of such prohibition shall be given by erection of
a sign.
(d) When official traffic control devices are placed as required
in subdivisions (b) or (c), it shall be unlawful for any driver of a
vehicle to disobey the directions of such official traffic control
devices.
I was completely caught off guard. I had no idea why he would mislead me like that, and what this 22101(d)- turn sign meant. There were no signs of any sort saying no turn and I had my turn signal on.
Was there a sign prior to the split indicating that vehicles turning right had to go to the right of the divide?

You might have a defense if you can take pictures of all the signs leading up to the point where you made the turn and show how clear (or unclear) the directions for traffic were.

My question is two part. First, is the turn I made illegal?
It can be. Without seeing all the signs, I can't say. In my experience, intersections like that usually do prohibit right turns. Not to mention the fact that had you turned without yielding, even if the other guy waved you on, it could still be a violation.

And furthermore, is there a law that requires the officer to explain what he is issuing a ticket for?
The violation is on the ticket. No law says he has to explain it to you.


- Carl
 

wazup7156

Junior Member
There were no signs at this intersection that said no right turn. With that clarified, is that turn illegal? Will I have a case when I go to court, and show the judge pictures of the intersection showing a lack of signage (even in google maps, it shows to go that way, I know that probably doesn't matter but just pointing out...)? What would be the best approach to win this in court?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
There were no signs at this intersection that said no right turn. With that clarified, is that turn illegal? Will I have a case when I go to court, and show the judge pictures of the intersection showing a lack of signage (even in google maps, it shows to go that way, I know that probably doesn't matter but just pointing out...)? What would be the best approach to win this in court?
What about on the approach? Or marking on the pavement? Perhaps through traffic was instructed to go left and right hand turning traffic was instructed to go right?

There are a number of possibilities.

In the long run, the state has to prove the offense and if no markings were present, you will likely prevail ... unless they modify the offense to an unsafe turn or failing to yield for turning in front of the traffic WITH the right of way.

- Carl
 

wazup7156

Junior Member
the only things there are the arrows on the ground as shown in the picture

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/6/11/f_Snapshot200m_ce97085.jpg

looking at the wording of 22101(c), it seems that, if a right turn from the lane I was in was prohibited, there must be a sign there signifying that, which there wasn't. It seems like 22101(d) is given when people either disobey 22101(b) by not turning when they are required to, or disobeying 22101(c), turning when they are not allowed to. Since there were no signs saying that I wasn't allowed to turn from that lane, I should not have been given a ticket for 22101(d). Is this reasoning sound?

As far as proceeding when somebody else has the right of way, is this a ticketable offense when the both parties stopped, made eye contact, and one waved the other on? Yea, the other person had the right of way, and I would have let them go, but they stopped and waved me on. If one person stops at a stop sign right before another and he is on the right, he has the right of way. But what if they are both stopped and he waves the other person on. The other person doesn't have the right of way, but it is completely safe and reasonable to proceed through the intersection. Can that person get a ticket for that?
 

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