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Fighting a speeding ticket

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ashworth102680

Junior Member
I was issued a ticket in the state of Washington. I was told I was clocked at 49 in a 35 zone. No schools or pedestrians were around. It was clear as day out and not particularly overcast.

I do not know if the policeman clocked me with laser or radar. I do not feel I was going as fast as he said I was, and I was moving with the flow of the rest of the traffic around me to the best of my knowledge.

I plan to fight the ticket, and use the speed survey laws to my advantage, but wanted to confirm here prior to my court date that what I read in a "speeding ticket fighting" book and that it would be a good defense.

What I was told in this book was this...

The basis for this defense is the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, which regulates traffic issues over the entire country.

The manual is long and typically uninteresting, but there is a section on street surveys that you can use for your benefit. This section says that every five years, an engineer must supervise a speed survey on each section of road to determine the speed limit.

If the speed survey was not done, or is older than five years, or did not include an engineer, this survey doesn’t count. Without the official street survey of the section of road where you were stopped, the police are not allowed to ticket you there.

If you can prove that the street survey for the street in question doesn’t exist or wasn’t done correctly, then your ticket should be considered invalid! That sounds like a worthy goal.

To get a copy of the speed survey, look up your local Department of Transportation. The speed surveys are public information, so they will have to give you a copy if you ask.

If someone tells you that there is no street survey for the section of road that you have requested, ask to get a written statement with their name, position, and date on official Department of Transportation letterhead. You will take that to court with you.

If you do get a copy of the street survey, look carefully for problems with it. Was it done on a different section of the road than where you were pulled over? Was there no engineer present? Is it older than five years?

If you find a discrepancy, take the street survey to court with you and use it as backup. You know what to do. Ask the police officer general questions about the Manual and the requirements for street surveys. Then present the evidence and ask the judge to throw out the ticket!

The source for the law given is this...

California residents a special case law
'The PEOPLE, Plaintiff v. Wendy EARNEST'.
40 Cal.Rptr.2d 304
33 Cal.App.4th Supp. 18
The PEOPLE, Plaintiff and Respondent,
v.
Wendy EARNEST, Defendant and Appellant.
The PEOPLE, Plaintiff and Respondent,
v.
Robert PERLMAN, Defendant and Appellant.
Cr. A. Nos. 9202, 9203.
Appellate Department, Superior Court, Orange County, California.
Feb. 14, 1995.
Does the fact that it's California and not Washington have any bearing or negative impact on my defense?

I already have a written statement from the Senior Traffic Engineer for the City stating that the road where I was cited has not been surveyed in the last 5 years.

Thanks for all responses!

Regards,
William Ashworth
 


racer72

Senior Member
Does the fact that it's California and not Washington have any bearing or negative impact on my defense?
California case law does not count in Washington.

I already have a written statement from the Senior Traffic Engineer for the City stating that the road where I was cited has not been surveyed in the last 5 years.
If there has been no changes in the road, a significant change in the population in the immediate area or recent construction that would affect the traffic patterns of the road, the existing survey is still considered valid.

Having witnessed hundreds of traffic court cases over the last 8 years or so, I can count on one hand the number of times that traffic surveys made any difference in determining whether a ticket was valid or not. In those cases, it generally resulted in a reduced charge, not dismissal of the ticket. If you have a clean driving record, I would suggest taking a deferral instead. Keep you nose clean for a year and the ticket goes away. Get another and both hit your driving record at the same time. If you do want to fight the ticket, at a minimum discuss it with a local attorney. They know the judges and can give you guidance on what works as a valid defense and what doesn't.
 

JIMinCA

Member
I don't know Washington law, but in CA, there are specific laws that require a valid, up to date speed survey to justify speed limits. If a limit is not justified, it could constitute a speed trap as defined by law. Many states simply say if you drive faster than the posted limit, then you are guilty.
 

ashworth102680

Junior Member
Hmm. So was that book I bought a sack of lies? They specifically listed that it was a rule in all fifty states. Maybe I'm missing something :)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Hmm. So was that book I bought a sack of lies? They specifically listed that it was a rule in all fifty states. Maybe I'm missing something :)
Good luck. But remember, the purpose of the book is for you to BUY it. Beyond that, they could care less ;)
 

Maestro64

Member
First case laws from any state can be used it is done all the time, but it comes with a up hill battle because you now have to convince the judge the case law from another state is valid for him to consider in your case. Case and point, all states tend to reference a Kentucky case where it was decided that the Officer operating a radar unit does not need to know how it works in order to operate and measure your speed. They said the officer does not have to be an "expert." For your reference (HONEYCUTT, Appellant, v. COMMONWEALTH of Kentucky)

With that said, the better approach would be to research the laws and case laws in Washington to see what has already been established. Case laws in Washington will carry more weight and state rules and laws carry even more weight. You would have to find where WA has adopted the MUTCD and they clearly call out engineering surveys are required to set PSL and over what time period. If this does not exist then using other state case laws may help in a appeal if the judge choose to ignore it.

Not too many states have Case laws on the use of engineering surveys to justify the PSL. CA being one of them. Most states rely on Statutory PSL laws, those are speed limits which they define ahead of time base on certain criteria, like 25 for residential 55 on divide highways and 65 for freeways outside urban areas and so on. They may even state any other speed limit that is not statutory must be justified by a engineering survey.

So unless the state clearly calls our that engineering surveys must be use, fighting a ticket on this merit alone is hard and usually requires bringing in experts on the subject and requires an appeal to higher courts, since the lower courts have no clue about this subject.

Oh, courts tend to plead these tickets away since they do not want case law like CA has, no state or local government wants to spend the money to justify a speed limit. I have read couple of cases where the courts did everything they could to avoid the subject or to set a precedent, they usually found someone guilty or not on some other legal merit like they admitted to speeding.

good luck.
 

garrula lingua

Senior Member
First case laws from any state can be used it is done all the time, but it comes with a up hill battle because you now have to convince the judge the case law from another state is valid for him to consider in your case. Case and point, all states tend to reference a Kentucky case where it was decided that the Officer operating a radar unit does not need to know how it works in order to operate and measure your speed. They said the officer does not have to be an "expert." For your reference (HONEYCUTT, Appellant, v. COMMONWEALTH of Kentucky)

With that said, the better approach would be to research the laws and case laws in Washington to see what has already been established. Case laws in Washington will carry more weight and state rules and laws carry even more weight. You would have to find where WA has adopted the MUTCD and they clearly call out engineering surveys are required to set PSL and over what time period. If this does not exist then using other state case laws may help in a appeal if the judge choose to ignore it.

Not too many states have Case laws on the use of engineering surveys to justify the PSL. CA being one of them. Most states rely on Statutory PSL laws, those are speed limits which they define ahead of time base on certain criteria, like 25 for residential 55 on divide highways and 65 for freeways outside urban areas and so on. They may even state any other speed limit that is not statutory must be justified by a engineering survey.

So unless the state clearly calls our that engineering surveys must be use, fighting a ticket on this merit alone is hard and usually requires bringing in experts on the subject and requires an appeal to higher courts, since the lower courts have no clue about this subject.

Oh, courts tend to plead these tickets away since they do not want case law like CA has, no state or local government wants to spend the money to justify a speed limit. I have read couple of cases where the courts did everything they could to avoid the subject or to set a precedent, they usually found someone guilty or not on some other legal merit like they admitted to speeding.

good luck.
Your posts are riddled with inaccuracies, and they are very incoherent.
 

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