Used car warranty issue

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA, car bought in NY

We bought a 2003 VW Passat V6 at a used car dealer in Rochester, NY, on 8/8/07. The car had about 98K miles and was apparantly in very good shape. Since Passats have some reputation regarding timing belts, we specifically asked for that to be serviced before purchasing it, but the dealer consulted with their selected service shop who said this particular car had a metal timing chain and that did not need to be serviced. Since we were still a bit concerned, we purchased a 4-year extended warranty from Penn Warranty through this dealer that, we were assured, covered this part. The car was registered in PA where we live.

Just about a year later, on 8/15/08, the timing belt (not chain, as it turns out) broke at interstate speed with about 105K miles. The car was towed towed to the nearest repair shop in NY and a claim was filed on the warranty. The warranty company has said the claim (an over $4000 repair) is denied because the recommended service to the timing belt was not performed at 100K. The car is sitting in the shop, still, after 2 weeks. Do we have any recourse with the warranty company or the used car dealer or even VW?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Are you saying you did not get it serviced at 100K as you agreed to do?

Why $4,000.00 for a timing " belt " replacement and timing ?

I understand the tow bills , etc . , but really timing " belts " are low cost , the labor and timing don't add up to 4 grand .

It sounds like your beef is with the dealer that told you it had a timing chain .

File a complaint with the local office of Attorney General .

I'd be a little t'd too for safety reason .

It's happened to me on the inter loop , from a dealer DX .

After throwing a fit , I got my DX fee back .

But again , 4 grand ?

BL said:

But again , 4 grand ?

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The valvetrain was no doubt damaged when the belt broke at highway speed.

Some are Automatic , some are standards .

Don't know about that year , but if a person is savvy enough , there could be little if any damages .

It wouldn't take a genius to apply the clutch and brakes .

Valvetrain, not transmission.

BL said:

Some are Automatic , some are standards .

Don't know about that year , but if a person is savvy enough , there could be little if any damages .

It wouldn't take a genius to apply the clutch and brakes .

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I think you misunderstand the operation of a modern engine. When the timing belt breaks under engine power the crankshaft and the pistons continue to move, as does the camshafts and valve assemblies...

In a proper functioning engine the parts move with synchronized and watch-like precision. When the piston is at top-dead-center, it is only a few millimeters away from the top of the cylinder head, and the valves are closed.

The valves open during intake and exhaust... and open further than the space allowed by the piston when at top-dead-center...

So if the the operation of the engine should become unsynchronized... say by the breakage of the timing belt with coordinates these engine systems...

well basically it is highly likely that the the piston will become smashed into the open valves with maximum force. So new valves, and possibly a new cams or even a new cylinder head are par for the course in a snapped timing belt scenario.

xylene said:

I think you misunderstand the operation of a modern engine. When the timing belt breaks under engine power the crankshaft and the pistons continue to move, as does the camshafts and valve assemblies...

In a proper functioning engine the parts move with synchronized and watch-like precision. When the piston is at top-dead-center, it is only a few millimeters away from the top of the cylinder head, and the valves are closed.

The valves open during intake and exhaust... and open further than the space allowed by the piston when at top-dead-center...

So if the the operation of the engine should become unsynchronized... say by the breakage of the timing belt with coordinates these engine systems...

well basically it is highly likely that the the piston will become smashed into the open valves with maximum force. So new valves, and possibly a new cams or even a new cylinder head are par for the course in a snapped timing belt scenario.

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Well , maybe under extreme circumstances , but your generalization don't hold water , I'm proof of it .

Before arguing about specifics , let's let the poster reply what exactly is ocurring .

Thanks for the replies. The car recived other normal 100K service, but not a change to the timing belt as the selling dealer and their chosen mechanic shop said the belt did not need to be replaced. Obviously, they were wrong. The car has a manual transmission and was at interstate speeds whem the engine just seemed to quit. This engine is of the more modern "zero clearance" type and there were a number of valves stuck open when the belt broke, so the next revolution of the engine had pistons impacting valves. The heads and a number of valves must be replaced, as confirmed when the belt was replaced and the engine rotated by hand to check compression in each cylinder...in several, there was none.

The issue is currently with the warranty company and whether they should pay, or if there is other recovery. Remember, the warranty was sold to us by the same salesman that sold the car, so it would seem he was acting as their agent. We specifically asked about replacing the timing belt, based on the mileage on the car, and he said it did not require servicing and that only applied to 4 cylinder VW engines with a rubber belt, not a chain as this car supposedly had.

Odds are the warranty company is off the hook - timing belts are "wear" items (like brakes and clutches, they just wear a lot slower), and many warranty companies exclude such from their coverage. Read the warranty contract to see if yours falls in this category.

You may have some sort of claim over the dealer where you bought the car for telling you not to change it. It's a weak claim though, as you are supposed to be the one to decide what work gets done, not them. Granted, they gave you faulty info, but unless you can prove that their doing so was negligent, this bird won't fly.

Lastly, did the $4k repair estimate come with a tub of KY? $4k to replace the heads is really expensive. If they're buying new ones from VW, maybe I could see that, but odds are the ones on your car can be repaired. Even if not, you can get a set from a junkyard, redo the entire valvetrain and get the machine work done for significantly less than $4k.


BL: the term you're looking for is "interference" engine

You Are Guilty said:

Odds are the warranty company is off the hook - timing belts are "wear" items (like brakes and clutches, they just wear a lot slower), and many warranty companies exclude such from their coverage. Read the warranty contract to see if yours falls in this category.

You may have some sort of claim over the dealer where you bought the car for telling you not to change it. It's a weak claim though, as you are supposed to be the one to decide what work gets done, not them. Granted, they gave you faulty info, but unless you can prove that their doing so was negligent, this bird won't fly.

Lastly, did the $4k repair estimate come with a tub of KY? $4k to replace the heads is really expensive. If they're buying new ones from VW, maybe I could see that, but odds are the ones on your car can be repaired. Even if not, you can get a set from a junkyard, redo the entire valvetrain and get the machine work done for significantly less than $4k.


BL: the term you're looking for is "interference" engine

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Yes, and I apologize for my bold remark , as I have learned something new .

The difference between "interference" engine , and non - interference engine , witch I only know one can cause damage and the other most likely will not .

I am a VW enthusiast.

I had a drunken conversation with my mechanic about this last night; a broken Passat timing belt.

4k is about right for this damage scenario, in his estimation, although he suggested a slightly higher cost repair of total engine replacement with a lower mileage used donor engine might be better value for money.