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Unauthorized entry by police?

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M

michelle123

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

Hoping someone could help me or steer me in the right direction.

Here's the story...sorry so long.

We've recently bought a new home and have been here 3 months come Oct. 1st. Yesterday morning I came home from dropping my daughter at school, entered through my gated backyard and went straight upstairs to my bathroom. I was in there no more than 15 minutes. My two sons were asleep on couches in the upstairs gameroom but I assumed they woke up because I heard talking. When I came out of the bathroom, they told me that a police officer had woke them up by shining flashlights in their faces and attempted to arrest my eldest son. Evidently the kid who lived here previously has a warrant for his arrest and just so happens to have the same first name as my eldest. They told me they showed their IDs, the cop released my son from handcuffs, apologized, and left. I only saw the police car in the distance from a nearby window.

The kids were laughing about it but the more I think about it the angrier I get. I never heard a knock or the doorbell. The front door was locked so he had to have entered not only through our 10 foot wooded gate but through my back door. No one was downstairs but he would have had to walk through the rooms to check. Then he proceeded upstairs. I never heard anyone yell "hello?" or "police" and as quiet as the house was at the time, there's no way I would have missed it. All of this seems irrelevant anyways.

Are police allowed to enter your residence so easily? Aren't there procedures for verifying a criminal's address? (A simple search of public records would show the home sale or even a return service request letter would have given them a forwarding address for at least his parents).
 


Zigner

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
michelle123 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

Hoping someone could help me or steer me in the right direction.

Here's the story...sorry so long.

We've recently bought a new home and have been here 3 months come Oct. 1st. Yesterday morning I came home from dropping my daughter at school, entered through my gated backyard and went straight upstairs to my bathroom. I was in there no more than 15 minutes. My two sons were asleep on couches in the upstairs gameroom but I assumed they woke up because I heard talking. When I came out of the bathroom, they told me that a police officer had woke them up by shining flashlights in their faces and attempted to arrest my eldest son. Evidently the kid who lived here previously has a warrant for his arrest and just so happens to have the same first name as my eldest. They told me they showed their IDs, the cop released my son from handcuffs, apologized, and left. I only saw the police car in the distance from a nearby window.

The kids were laughing about it but the more I think about it the angrier I get. I never heard a knock or the doorbell. The front door was locked so he had to have entered not only through our 10 foot wooded gate but through my back door. No one was downstairs but he would have had to walk through the rooms to check. Then he proceeded upstairs. I never heard anyone yell "hello?" or "police" and as quiet as the house was at the time, there's no way I would have missed it. All of this seems irrelevant anyways.

Are police allowed to enter your residence so easily? Aren't there procedures for verifying a criminal's address? (A simple search of public records would show the home sale or even a return service request letter would have given them a forwarding address for at least his parents).
Click to expand...
Assuming the police had a warrant for the arrest, they (most likely) did everything right. No harm no foul.
As for your suggestions:
1) A home sale doesn't mean that the person doesn't still live there. And, the police don't have time, resources, or reason to initiate a records search every time they attempt to serve a felony warrant.
2) Why would the police send a letter to the presumed residence of a felony suspect saying they were headed his way?
 
M

michelle123

Junior Member
Zigner said:
Assuming the police had a warrant for the arrest, they (most likely) did everything right. No harm no foul.
As for your suggestions:
1) A home sale doesn't mean that the person doesn't still live there. And, the police don't have time, resources, or reason to initiate a records search every time they attempt to serve a felony warrant.
Click to expand...
Valid point. Although it took me less than a minute to find this from a link posted at their website, much less time than for him to drive all the way out here & back.

2) Why would the police send a letter to the presumed residence of a felony suspect saying they were headed his way?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't expect the police to do this. I should've added that also through their website I found out that this individual had been on probation since 4/1 for burgulary of a residence and it was revoked because he failed to report. A simple letter from the probation officer was what I was thinking. All he/she had to do was write "Change Service Requested" on the envelope. The post office would provide the reason it was undeliverable and if a forwarding address was on file (it is), provide it to the sender.

So is your answer/advice to my questions, "no harm, no foul" ? Seems ridiculous that police can enter any residence that they think a felon lives at. Are you seriously okay with them coming into your home like that?

I understand the mix-up with my son's name and address to a point. It's the unauthorized entry I have a problem with. Had my sons not been visiting at the time, I would have been alone and who knows, maybe walking around in my skivvies. Do we not have any privacy rights in our own home?
 
Zigner

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
michelle123 said:
Valid point. Although it took me less than a minute to find this from a link posted at their website, much less time than for him to drive all the way out here & back.



I wouldn't expect the police to do this. I should've added that also through their website I found out that this individual had been on probation since 4/1 for burgulary of a residence and it was revoked because he failed to report. A simple letter from the probation officer was what I was thinking. All he/she had to do was write "Change Service Requested" on the envelope. The post office would provide the reason it was undeliverable and if a forwarding address was on file (it is), provide it to the sender.

So is your answer/advice to my questions, "no harm, no foul" ? Seems ridiculous that police can enter any residence that they think a felon lives at. Are you seriously okay with them coming into your home like that?

I understand the mix-up with my son's name and address to a point. It's the unauthorized entry I have a problem with. Had my sons not been visiting at the time, I would have been alone and who knows, maybe walking around in my skivvies. Do we not have any privacy rights in our own home?
Click to expand...
Again, no harm no foul.
Make a complaint to the department if you feel so "wronged". However, nothing was done wrong by the police (based solely on what you posted)
 
xylene

xylene

Senior Member
lock and bolt your door when at home.

My door, locks, strkeplate and doorjam are rated for a crack dealer. (it's real UL designation)

It would take a small demolition charge or a swat team a few minutes to breech my door.

Let alone a criminal.
 
T

tranquility

Senior Member
I don't know Texas law on the matter, but it cannot be less than federal protections regarding the fourth amendment. If the police have an arrest warrant, to enter a residence to make an arrest they must have probable cause to believe the person is at the residence at that time.

It is not reasonable for the police to not know the ownership of a house they intended to enter changed three months ago. While more facts would be needed to be sure, I think it would be very hard for the police to have reached the level of probable cause to believe the person was in the house at that time under the facts we know. Not impossible, but unlikely.

I think there was a violation of your fourth amendment rights. But, sadly, rights don't have a money value. Just because rights have been violated does not mean you can get damages from the governement. That is where the "no harm, no foul" statment comes from. Unless you can prove you were hurt in a monetary way, you cannot sue and get "compensated" for the harm.

But, there most probably was a foul. If you are so motivated, make a complaint.
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
I am curious ... did they simply walk into the house to the upstairs where the boys were? or did they knock on the front door and the boys answered? I find it very odd that they would just start wandering around an empty house looking for someone like that. But, Texas is a different world in some ways.

- Carl
 
R

Roo

Member
I wondered about that too, but OP states that the boys were asleep and they were awakened by the officers shining flashlights in their faces.
 
Zigner

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
tranquility said:
It is not reasonable for the police to not know the ownership of a house they intended to enter changed three months ago.
Click to expand...
Tranq -

If the suspect is a renter, then the ownership of the house would have no bearing on this. They don't need to believe he owns the house, rather just that he resides there.
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
itsmewhoelse said:
WROOONG!

Police can only enter if its a FELONY warrent
Click to expand...
And where is that mentioned under TX law?

I am not disputing it, just that I don't see any specific difference in the literature I scanned.

The general rule is that the police have to have good cause to believe the subject is in the house. Now, misdemeanor warrants may have time service restrictions and MAY have entry restrictions, but I don't see that for TX ... at least not where I have looked recently.

- Carl
 
M

michelle123

Junior Member
tranquility said:
I don't know Texas law on the matter, but it cannot be less than federal protections regarding the fourth amendment. If the police have an arrest warrant, to enter a residence to make an arrest they must have probable cause to believe the person is at the residence at that time.

It is not reasonable for the police to not know the ownership of a house they intended to enter changed three months ago. While more facts would be needed to be sure, I think it would be very hard for the police to have reached the level of probable cause to believe the person was in the house at that time under the facts we know. Not impossible, but unlikely.

I think there was a violation of your fourth amendment rights. But, sadly, rights don't have a money value. Just because rights have been violated does not mean you can get damages from the governement. That is where the "no harm, no foul" statment comes from. Unless you can prove you were hurt in a monetary way, you cannot sue and get "compensated" for the harm.

But, there most probably was a foul. If you are so motivated, make a complaint.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I was never interested in "compensation" only whether I had a valid complaint. A friend who works at a local police station was asking about this and she told me that in order to enter without permission, they must have a "no-knock" warrant or similar to what you stated: probable cause that someone was in danger. The latter doesn't apply and if they did have this type of warrant, it was never shown to my sons. In fact, they said he had no paperwork whatsoever with him. The friend said that the no-knock warrants are almost never issued unless the suspect had previously evaded attempts to arrest. I doubt this since the warrant was issued Wed & this happened Thu.
 
M

michelle123

Junior Member
CdwJava said:
I am curious ... did they simply walk into the house to the upstairs where the boys were? or did they knock on the front door and the boys answered? I find it very odd that they would just start wandering around an empty house looking for someone like that. But, Texas is a different world in some ways.

- Carl
Click to expand...
Yes, he just walked right in. No doorbell, no knocking. I also find it odd & creepy!
 
M

michelle123

Junior Member
CdwJava said:
And where is that mentioned under TX law?

I am not disputing it, just that I don't see any specific difference in the literature I scanned.

The general rule is that the police have to have good cause to believe the subject is in the house. Now, misdemeanor warrants may have time service restrictions and MAY have entry restrictions, but I don't see that for TX ... at least not where I have looked recently.

- Carl
Click to expand...
Here's what the case history says:
Charge: 22990002 Burglary of Habitation /F2 94
Severity FEL-2
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
On a side note, almost NO officer will have an arrest warrant in hand when they make the arrest. The warrant will be abstracted or delivered to the agency when it is confirmed only AFTER the subject is in custody. Sometimes officers might have a copy of the warrant, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

How it typically works is that officers are notified of subjects who are wanted (notified that a warrant exists) and officers go out and make the arrest when they can.

- Carl
 
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