• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

retaliation vs self defense

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

rnkellylynn

Junior Member
Colorado.

My 14 y.o. son was videotaped in a school bus fight. My son was minding his own business when be got pounded in the back of the head by a fist (other child playing "slugbug"). My son turned around and hit him. Other child hit back. My child was suspended from bus riding for his part in the fight. Director says he should have notified the driver instead. I say he has the right to self-defense. He didn't see the first hit coming, and didn't know this other kid, or if the other child was done hitting him. He could not flee, he did not initiate, not even verbally. The other child got a bigger suspension. I say my son should be allowed to protect himself from bodily harm. It was unprovoked. Comments before I call the district super (who told my husband that if he were a kid, he would probably have done the same!)?
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Sorry, but I'm with the Director. There was assistance available to him and instead of accessing it, your son hit back. Self-defense is all well and good if there is no other option, but there was an option and he didn't take it. They both get suspensions in my book.
 

xylene

Senior Member
Son has learned a valuable lesson, that rule-mongering people in positions of authority will ALWAYS be vexing him, and the best course of action is to undertake tiny acts of trivial sabotage that chip away at the very edifice they hold dear.

Or just suck it up and enjoy the day off.
 

rnkellylynn

Junior Member
Xylene, super funny! And I agree with this assessment.

I am not mad at my son for hitting the other child. I am mad at having to tell him that he is not allowed to protect himself. I am mad that he is being punished for being the victim. If I were getting bitten by a mosquito, I would slap it. I would not simply go and find the DEET after the fact.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Xylene, super funny! And I agree with this assessment.

I am not mad at my son for hitting the other child. I am mad at having to tell him that he is not allowed to protect himself. I am mad that he is being punished for being the victim. If I were getting bitten by a mosquito, I would slap it. I would not simply go and find the DEET after the fact.

the second a person assaults someone, they are no longer the victim. i'm in the process of teaching my son this same lesson. your son could have gotten up, and told the driver. he could have moved seats as well. blocking a hit is self defense. attacking another person is not self defense. you want to go further to teach self defense, take him to a good karate class or self defense class. they can teach him the difference.

if you slap a mesquito, it dies. that's murder. ;)
 

rnkellylynn

Junior Member
You are assuming my son knew how much danger he was in, and that it would now be over. When someone assaults your head from behind, hard enough to bite your tongue, they are inflicting bodily harm. Suppose I had taken him into the hospital for spinal compression, or for shearing force of the blood vessels of the brain. I maintain that my child could not expect to know how much damage he was in for, only that he had been hurt in the head. Even a rapist may not hurt someone in the head. Would you suggest that the rape victim wait to see how much damage was really coming? Then should she just wait to go to authorities afterward? I read a civil rights assertion somewhere today, that loosely said that if you believe that someone is about to inflict bodily harm, you may use non-deadly force to defend yourself. In my child's case, he had already sustained bodily harm, and could not judge if it was still coming. He did not expect a blow in the first instance.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
That does not change the fact that there was help available, as close as the bus driver's seat. Same as if your hypothetical rape victim could call out to the cop on the corner.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
You are assuming my son knew how much danger he was in, and that it would now be over. When someone assaults your head from behind, hard enough to bite your tongue, they are inflicting bodily harm.
When said child turned around, he could see that the other child was no longer presenting a threat. He had time to bend down, say a curse word, turn around, climb up the back of the seat and throw a punch...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
My 14 y.o. son was videotaped in a school bus fight. My son was minding his own business when be got pounded in the back of the head by a fist (other child playing "slugbug"). My son turned around and hit him. Other child hit back.
My kids play that stupid game, too.

But, yours should never have turned around and struck him. That was not self defense, it was retaliation. The pop for the slugbug thing was over, there was no cause to strike back in defense, only as a response.

I say he has the right to self-defense. He didn't see the first hit coming, and didn't know this other kid, or if the other child was done hitting him.
And how did his turning around striking the other kid prevent any further attack? Would the attack have continued had your son NOT turned around and struck back? I wager not. Since your son knew it was a "slugbug" thing, and was justifiably angry over being popped, it does not justify a retaliatory strike to prevent the attack from continuing.

You are free to make this claim at your son's appeal, but I wouldn't count too heavily on it holding much weight. When two kids are involved in a fight, most often both kids get suspended regardless of who through the first blow.

Let's face it, your son hit the other kid back because he was surprised and angry. He hit him back. Understandable. It's just not permissible.

Yes, he should not have been popped. Yes, he had a right to be angry. Yes, it is a natural thing to strike back. And, yes, it is very common to face suspension for such actions.

He might get lucky and get the suspension commuted to one day, or dropped altogether. It really depend son the district. I have seen similar incidents go both way at the district level. Just be lucky that the police did not get involved because they could both be charged with battery and that would be a whole 'nother ball of wax!

Good luck.

- Carl
 

synister

Junior Member
I've been in similar situations when I was younger. I've been in multiple fights due to self defense, and have been suspended. I agree with Carl, be happy that the school district didn't get the police involved in the situation and let your son enjoy his days off (and also be proud that your son has conjones to fight back).
 
I've been in similar situations when I was younger. I've been in multiple fights due to self defense, and have been suspended. I agree with Carl, be happy that the school district didn't get the police involved in the situation and let your son enjoy his days off (and also be proud that your son has conjones to fight back).

The cojones to fight back?!? I'd say it's the lack of brains to just go to the bus driver. What he did wasn't self-defense by any stretch of any reasonable imagination. The thought of you people breeding keeps me awake at night.
 

VeronicaLodge

Senior Member
the second a person assaults someone, they are no longer the victim. i'm in the process of teaching my son this same lesson. your son could have gotten up, and told the driver. he could have moved seats as well. blocking a hit is self defense. attacking another person is not self defense. you want to go further to teach self defense, take him to a good karate class or self defense class. they can teach him the difference.

if you slap a mesquito, it dies. that's murder. ;)
i agree with isabella on that self defense is if he saw the first hit coming and defended against it possibly pushing or hitting the kid in order to not be hit the first time. turning around after being hit and hitting back is retaliation. period. even if. end of story.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
Agreed.

The definition of self defense is violence used to prevent imminent harm to self.

He was in no further threat of imminent harm.

Well, unless another bug went by.

By the way, I would be careful here. If you go to the school and demand that the other child be disciplined, any sane educational administrator's next question to your child would be "so, Billy, have you ever hit someone in this game? How many times?"

And then "Billy" would suffer the same punishment. If you son played this game, then he overreacted...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Having observed this "slugbug" game in action, the person receiving the pop usually objects ... but, that kid will be the first one to try it at the next opportunity. The ides is to strike the unwary and justify it through the observation of a passing VW bug. Odd, but there ya have it.

It's an annoying and common activity right now among adolescent boys.

- Carl
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top