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No Handicapped Sign for this parking space in Apartment Complex HELP

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M

MaureenKelly

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.
We live in this apartment complex that the lighting is very bad. When you drive in and go up the hill there are parking spaces, we park in the far right corner space. We did not see any Handicap sign nor one curb painted a different color. It was 8:30 at night. The next morning we had a ticket on our car, not until we pulled out of the space did we even see that it was a handicapped spot, plus the painting on the cement was worn and faded. I would like to fight this ticket because I feel it wasn't clearly visiable nor was there a sign. I have noticed other cars that are not handicap park there too. Can I take a video with my phone or pictures as evidence ? Do I have a chance on this ? It was a parking ticket but not recongnized by the sheriffs dept. Will the DMV recongnize this ? My friend also said take it to the City Hall ?? I don't know why, does anyone know the what the City Hall can do for this ?. Thank you in advance for your advice and concern.
 


Zigner

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Take pictures with a REAL camera so that you can provide copies of the photo for all involved entities. With no sign, it is not a valid spot.
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
CVC 22511.8 requires the sign to be posted and at least one of the other two elements (section 2 or 3) be present:

(1) (A) By posting immediately adjacent to, and visible from, each
stall or space, a sign consisting of a profile view of a wheelchair
with occupant in white on a blue background.
(B) The sign shall also clearly and conspicuously state the
following: "Minimum Fine $250," pursuant to Section 42001.13, imposed
upon a person parking or leaving standing a vehicle in a stall or
space designated for the use of disabled persons and disabled
veterans, unless a special license plate issued pursuant to Section
5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55
or 22511.59 is displayed on the vehicle. This subparagraph applies
only to signs for parking spaces constructed on or after July 1,
2008, and signs that are replaced on or after July 1, 2008, or as the
State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural repair,
alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and
facilities on or after July 1, 2008.
(2) (A) By outlining or painting the stall or space in blue and
outlining on the ground in the stall or space in white or suitable
contrasting color a profile view depicting a wheelchair with
occupant.
(B) The loading and unloading area of the pavement adjacent to a
parking stall or space designated for disabled persons or disabled
veterans shall be marked by a border and hatched lines. The border
shall be painted blue and the hatched lines shall be painted a
suitable contrasting color to the parking space. Blue or white paint
is preferred. In addition, within the border the words "No Parking"
shall be painted in white letters no less than 12 inches high. This
subparagraph applies only to parking spaces constructed on or after
July 1, 2008, and painting that is done on or after July 1, 2008, or
as the State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural
repair, alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and
facilities on or after July 1, 2008.
(3) By outlining a profile view of a wheelchair with occupant in
white on a blue background, of the same dimensions as in paragraph
(2). The profile view shall be located so that it is visible to a
traffic enforcement officer when a vehicle is properly parked in the
space.​

- Carl
 
D

dnutz

Junior Member
Needs some attention

Carl -
I've seen you post this information twice. It seems there is some need for this issue to be addressed since I was searching for this exact type of information and I found it multiple times on various forums. The way I read it, clearly item number 1 is required and there is a 'choice' of one of the other two. I'm wondering who to 'write' to bring up the issue? Do I "write my congressman"?
I was in a tiny parking lot shared by a 7-11 and a coffee shop at 8:30am and it was completely full. I waited a few seconds then thought since I was just stopping for coffee, and I always run in and out in less than 45 seconds (grab a cup and drop exact change), I'd use the blue painted handicap spot which had NO SIGN. I was stared at in disbelief by two people.
I was always under the impression it had to have a sign also, so I figured I'd be fine especially being less than a minute. I was not cited nor would I ever abuse a parking spot for a disabled person just to be spiteful. However, disabled people are not VIP, they are disabled. We've probably all had to endure a 30 second or a minute wait for a spot. Some may say I should've endured that wait but I was running just on time for work with no extra to spare, and from reading that law previously, I figured what the heck. That may sound awful to some but there's an obvious issue here since so many people are having the problem!
The reason for the sign being a MUST is due to the fact that paint fades, leaves cover the ground and in some places it snows and it's impossible to see.
Blatant legal issue in my eyes!:mad:




CdwJava said:
CVC 22511.8 requires the sign to be posted and at least one of the other two elements (section 2 or 3) be present:

(1) (A) By posting immediately adjacent to, and visible from, each
stall or space, a sign consisting of a profile view of a wheelchair
with occupant in white on a blue background.
(B) The sign shall also clearly and conspicuously state the
following: "Minimum Fine $250," pursuant to Section 42001.13, imposed
upon a person parking or leaving standing a vehicle in a stall or
space designated for the use of disabled persons and disabled
veterans, unless a special license plate issued pursuant to Section
5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55
or 22511.59 is displayed on the vehicle. This subparagraph applies
only to signs for parking spaces constructed on or after July 1,
2008, and signs that are replaced on or after July 1, 2008, or as the
State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural repair,
alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and
facilities on or after July 1, 2008.
(2) (A) By outlining or painting the stall or space in blue and
outlining on the ground in the stall or space in white or suitable
contrasting color a profile view depicting a wheelchair with
occupant.
(B) The loading and unloading area of the pavement adjacent to a
parking stall or space designated for disabled persons or disabled
veterans shall be marked by a border and hatched lines. The border
shall be painted blue and the hatched lines shall be painted a
suitable contrasting color to the parking space. Blue or white paint
is preferred. In addition, within the border the words "No Parking"
shall be painted in white letters no less than 12 inches high. This
subparagraph applies only to parking spaces constructed on or after
July 1, 2008, and painting that is done on or after July 1, 2008, or
as the State Architect deems necessary when renovations, structural
repair, alterations, and additions occur to existing buildings and
facilities on or after July 1, 2008.
(3) By outlining a profile view of a wheelchair with occupant in
white on a blue background, of the same dimensions as in paragraph
(2). The profile view shall be located so that it is visible to a
traffic enforcement officer when a vehicle is properly parked in the
space.​

- Carl
Click to expand...
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
And if the sign is unreadable or otherwise improper or illegible, it is the responsibility of the property owner or responsible entity to bring it up to date. If the space is illegible, then that is a defense that can be raised at the parking citation hearing. But, it might be hard to argue that the cite was improper if all the other signs and portents were present. After all, we all know you can't park in a handicapped parking space.

And the law currently does not allow for a 30 second stop to get a cup of coffee, it is "no parking" unless you have a proper placard or plate. So, if you stop even in an improperly marked space and are not displaying a placard or disabled plate, expect to get the sour looks from the normal, decent folks.

And if you want to change the law to allow for temporary parking, write to your state senator or assembly person and ask that they change the Vehicle Code to allow for temporary parking ... it won't happen, but you can ask.

Maybe one day if you have a loved one that NEEDS one of those spaces, you'll understand why you get those looks of disbelief and ire from people in front of the 7-11.
 
D

davidmcbeth3

Senior Member
we used to call handicapped parking spaces??

Good parking spaces.

This system is the most abused system in the world.

My 80yr old father has a card but he can walk just fine....

If a space is not marked properly, I have no problem parking in it.

(yeah, I'm mean ... I smoke in the children's cancer hospital too)
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
davidmcbeth3 said:
Good parking spaces.

This system is the most abused system in the world.
Click to expand...
Yeah ... so abused. And it hurts so many people. :rolleyes:

My 80yr old father has a card but he can walk just fine....
Click to expand...
Then talk to your dad about returning the placard. Apparently his doctor felt he had a medical need.

If a space is not marked properly, I have no problem parking in it.
(yeah, I'm mean ... I smoke in the children's cancer hospital too)
Click to expand...
Clearly, you are an ass.
 
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