What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado
Not sure why my original post got deleted, but I still need some help on this. Below is my original post. There were some other questions mostly pertaining to why I was terminated which I will also post a reprint of. My main question is how is "leaves the employment of" interpreted legally. Leaves implies that it was willful on my part, but I don't know if that will hold up in court.
" I was recently termintated from my job in Denver, CO and when I opened my last paycheck, found that they had deducted $1600 from it. They said it was the cost of training I had done a year earlier. I did sign a contract saying that I would agree to pay them back if I left within 18 months of the training, but I was not under the impression that this was the case if I got fired. Further from that, I'm not sure that deducting this kind of expense from a paycheck is even legal.
I'll give you the actual wording on the contract:
"In the event that the employee leaves the employment of __________ for any reason whatsoever prior to the expiration of 18 months (12 months if _______ 's cost is less then $750.00) from the date of the Educational Experience, Employee agrees to reimburse __________ for all costs associated with said Educational Experience, including expenses."
The blank spots are the name of my former employer. I'm just looking for advice on what avenue to take with this and if I have a chance of getting that money back. The impression I got from the discussions previous to going to the training was that I would be obligated to pay them back only if I quit. The main thing that makes me think I could win is the word "leaves", which by the only legal definition I can find means "willful departure with intent to remain away". I was terminated and had every intention of remaining there for the foreseeable future, so I didn't leave by the legal definition.
My first thought was to write a letter to them and state what I have found and my argument, and see if they would settle before anything actually goes into a court. Beyond that, I was thinking Small Claims court. I'd really prefer not to take it any higher then that for this amount of money, but I also don't want to get taken advantage of. Most of the experiences I have had with this company's administration policies has been fairly negative. They had previously attempted to coerce me to quit on my own, and my 90 day review was 6 months late. Additionally, they deducted tax's before deducting the training expense, so i payed the full amount of taxes without receiving income (so they essentially taxed me for this training as well).
A fellow co-worker was terminated a week previous to me, and is going through the same scenario since he too attended training at the expense of my former employer. He has contacted the labor department and done some research, and believes that this form of deduction is illegal when taken out of an employees payroll. The contract does not state that it will be deducted and permission was never given to do so. If it is indeed illegal, then I think we would have a decent case against them.
So to review, does this contract hold up my side or theirs. Is a deduction of this nature allowed to be taken out of a paycheck or does it have to be billed or sought after separately?
Thanks for any advice you have on this matter."
This is the part that another use asked to know about:
1. Tardiness (5-10 minutes late occasionally)
2. My (apparent) attitude problem (I had a minor confrontation with my superiours over a disagreement in which order I was doing a task). I say apparent because I was rather harshly confronted over something that I wasn't entirely in control of, and got a big flustered by it.
3. They have veritably no business between now and New Years which would have cut my hours way down, and that this was a partially a layoff so they would't have to give me hours. They have cut all the full-time employees down to 20ish hours, from talking to a former co-worker."
Thanks for any input you might have.
Josh H.
Not sure why my original post got deleted, but I still need some help on this. Below is my original post. There were some other questions mostly pertaining to why I was terminated which I will also post a reprint of. My main question is how is "leaves the employment of" interpreted legally. Leaves implies that it was willful on my part, but I don't know if that will hold up in court.
" I was recently termintated from my job in Denver, CO and when I opened my last paycheck, found that they had deducted $1600 from it. They said it was the cost of training I had done a year earlier. I did sign a contract saying that I would agree to pay them back if I left within 18 months of the training, but I was not under the impression that this was the case if I got fired. Further from that, I'm not sure that deducting this kind of expense from a paycheck is even legal.
I'll give you the actual wording on the contract:
"In the event that the employee leaves the employment of __________ for any reason whatsoever prior to the expiration of 18 months (12 months if _______ 's cost is less then $750.00) from the date of the Educational Experience, Employee agrees to reimburse __________ for all costs associated with said Educational Experience, including expenses."
The blank spots are the name of my former employer. I'm just looking for advice on what avenue to take with this and if I have a chance of getting that money back. The impression I got from the discussions previous to going to the training was that I would be obligated to pay them back only if I quit. The main thing that makes me think I could win is the word "leaves", which by the only legal definition I can find means "willful departure with intent to remain away". I was terminated and had every intention of remaining there for the foreseeable future, so I didn't leave by the legal definition.
My first thought was to write a letter to them and state what I have found and my argument, and see if they would settle before anything actually goes into a court. Beyond that, I was thinking Small Claims court. I'd really prefer not to take it any higher then that for this amount of money, but I also don't want to get taken advantage of. Most of the experiences I have had with this company's administration policies has been fairly negative. They had previously attempted to coerce me to quit on my own, and my 90 day review was 6 months late. Additionally, they deducted tax's before deducting the training expense, so i payed the full amount of taxes without receiving income (so they essentially taxed me for this training as well).
A fellow co-worker was terminated a week previous to me, and is going through the same scenario since he too attended training at the expense of my former employer. He has contacted the labor department and done some research, and believes that this form of deduction is illegal when taken out of an employees payroll. The contract does not state that it will be deducted and permission was never given to do so. If it is indeed illegal, then I think we would have a decent case against them.
So to review, does this contract hold up my side or theirs. Is a deduction of this nature allowed to be taken out of a paycheck or does it have to be billed or sought after separately?
Thanks for any advice you have on this matter."
This is the part that another use asked to know about:
" The things mentioned in the meeting where they "let me go" were:
1. Tardiness (5-10 minutes late occasionally)
2. My (apparent) attitude problem (I had a minor confrontation with my superiours over a disagreement in which order I was doing a task). I say apparent because I was rather harshly confronted over something that I wasn't entirely in control of, and got a big flustered by it.
3. They have veritably no business between now and New Years which would have cut my hours way down, and that this was a partially a layoff so they would't have to give me hours. They have cut all the full-time employees down to 20ish hours, from talking to a former co-worker."
Thanks for any input you might have.
Josh H.