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Will versus trust confusion

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unoorbit

Junior Member
just received a copy of the will and it says nothing about the distibution of assets. There is also a revocable trust that I have found a copy of that is at best vague. I have discovered that the trust was "amended and restated" a year later. I do not have a copy of this one. I have been given very limited information from the executor and trustee (they are the same person), and I don't know if it's because games are being played or I am not asking the right questions. I have been told by them that I am an heir and the asset division basics, but cannot get a straight answer about life insurance benefits or estimated assets of the estate. I have heard rumors of between 10-15 million.

The trustee (a relative) has been managing the trust for 16 years, with little if any oversight from other family members, because evidently they are "difficult". I haven't had any dealings with this person or others in my family wanting to distance myself from the drama. Now that I am being put in the position of "investigator" by my siblings, and having to educate myself about the whole process, I came here for help.

Here are my questions:
Since there is a will and the trust, what's the point of having a will if the trust dictate how the estate is distributed?
Does the will have to go through probate before the trust is distibuted?
How would I find out who the beneficiaries are for the life insurance policy?
How do I get straight answers about the value of the estate?
Can the trustee purchase a home and have my aunt (who passed) listed as a co-buyer. If so since my aunt was a co-buyer, does the house have to be included in my aunts assets?
I have found a 3rd trust with a piece of property that no-one seems to know about but me. Instead of finding all this out bit by bit, is there some way to ask for COMPLETE disclosure of all pertinent information regarding the estate?

I'm sure I will have more questions, so please bear with me. I am new at this whole thing.

Thanks
 


S

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Until you have a full and complete copy of both the trust and the will, there is no way we can give you any answers.
 
C

curb1

Senior Member
Who died, and when? You said, "The trustee (a relative) has been managing the trust for 16 years"

Was the life insurance policy outside the trust? If so, the trust and will have nothing to do with the life insurance payout. Whomever was named as beneficiary on the policy will receive the payout.

The big question will be if all of the assets were titled within the trust. If they were, then the trust will/should dictate the distribution. You said, "I have discovered that the trust was "amended and restated" a year later. I do not have a copy of this one." Who has a copy, and how did you find out? All beneficiaries are entitled to a copy of the trust. You might check at the courthouse to see if the Trust was recorded. It may, or may not have been recorded.

Finally, with the amount of assets you are talking about, hire your own attorney if the Trustee isn't forthcoming. Don't waste time, be aggressive.
 
U

unoorbit

Junior Member
curb1 said:
Who died, and when? You said, "The trustee (a relative) has been managing the trust for 16 years"The aunt passed away 10/08

Was the life insurance policy outside the trust? If so, the trust and will have nothing to do with the life insurance payout. Whomever was named as beneficiary on the policy will receive the payout.
I have no idea if it's in or out. What I would like to do is get a copy, but I don't know how

The big question will be if all of the assets were titled within the trust. If they were, then the trust will/should dictate the distribution. You said, "I have discovered that the trust was "amended and restated" a year later. I do not have a copy of this one." Who has a copy, and how did you find out? All beneficiaries are entitled to a copy of the trust. You might check at the courthouse to see if the Trust was recorded. It may, or may not have been recorded.
I found the original trust through property records searches in the county where she lived. The "restated and amended" trust was unknown until it was mentioned in the will. The trustee must have had a copy of the amnded trust to give me the few specifics they have, but claims it was lost

Finally, with the amount of assets you are talking about, hire your own attorney if the Trustee isn't forthcoming. Don't waste time, be aggressive.
Click to expand...
As for the being agressive part. I was in the process of writing this and got one phone call and an email from 2 other beneficiaries telling me to stop asking questions. Why is everyone so afraid to ask questions?
 
C

curb1

Senior Member
Has the Trustee contacted any other beneficiaries? How many beneficiaries are involved that you know about? I would think that all of the beneficiaries would have a common interest.

What is the relationship of the Trustee and the deceased aunt?

I'm just fishing for a direction to pursue this situation.
 
U

unoorbit

Junior Member
curb1 said:
Has the Trustee contacted any other beneficiaries? How many beneficiaries are involved that you know about? I would think that all of the beneficiaries would have a common interest. There are 6, and only the most basic information has been furnished. Yes they all should have a common interest, but seem to be intimidated for some reason. Am I wrong in thinking that everything is already in writing and that she as trustee and executor can't change anything even if I make her made by asking questions? Am I also right in assuming the worst she can do is delay things? I seem to be the only one who has bothered to try to find out anything

What is the relationship of the Trustee and the deceased aunt?A niece

I'm just fishing for a direction to pursue this situation.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answers so far.
 
C

curb1

Senior Member
You said, "I haven't had any dealings with this person (the trustee)". Is there a reason that you think she will not be straight with you? If I were you I would approach her in the most diplomatic way you can and ask her how everything is going, and if you can help. There is no reason why she shouldn't be helpful, and she shouldn't be offended that you ask. You should be able to get a good feeling about her if she balks at your inquiries.

If she has been an active Trustee for 16 years, she should have a pretty good grasp of the situation. It hasn't been too long since the death so there might be good reasons why nothing appears to have been done.
 
U

unoorbit

Junior Member
Follow up

I am supposed to be getting a copy of the trust shortly, but I also wanted to submit this question again by itself.

Can the trustee purchase a home and have my aunt (who passed) listed as a co-buyer. If so since my aunt was a co-buyer, does the house have to be included in my aunts assets?

This happened earlier this year and I know that my aunt was not in her right mind to be making such decision. There was also a lot of work done at one of her properties late last year which the trustees and her sister are inheriting as part of the estate. It may be coincidence, but I really think that it was preplanned as they saw the condition of my aunt deteriorate and wanted to get all this done before she passed.

I guess what I'm trying to accomplish here is to protect what assets are left for the rest of the beneficiaries and I just don't know what to do to accomplish that.
 
C

curb1

Senior Member
You asked, "Can the trustee purchase a home and have my aunt (who passed) listed as a co-buyer. If so since my aunt was a co-buyer, does the house have to be included in my aunts assets?

If your Aunt was of sound mind and wasn't coerced in any way, yes she can. But you are explaining a situation that could easily approach elder abuse, which is very serious if proved. It sounds like this was done in a way that the house could have passed outside the will and trust. It comes down to how the house was titled.

Just from what you have mentioned, I can understand your concern. Best thing to do is organize the facts very well, and get an attorney to take a close look. Be careful not to get sucked in by an attorney who will "milk" the situation.
 
D

Dandy Don

Senior Member
Since the will and trust have just recently been put into management by the trustee, you must allow him a few months to manage the affairs and wait for the probate process to play itself out. Do NOT pester the trustee for information right now because it is a bit too soon for him to have finished everything.

Most of the assets may have been put into the trust and the will is most likely a formality or pour-over will that retroactively claims in the future any assets that were forgotten to be put into the trust. The will and the trust are 2 separate matters that are handled separately--the will is public record and is handled in court, whereas the trust is a private matter that is handled outside of court.

You will need to retain a trust attorney to protect your own interests and act as a go-between for you with the trustee. You can also ask any questions you have to your own attorney. Many states provide trust beneficiaries with the right to ask the trustee for a copy of the trust and an accounting statement for each year the trust has been in existence--you need to ask your attorney if Georgia state law allows this. Other states do not allow this.

You do not have the right to ask who the life insurance beneficiaries are unless the trustee just wants to voluntarily provide that information. IF you are a life insurance beneficiary, you will be contacted about this by the trustee OR by the insurance company.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 
C

curb1

Senior Member
DandyDon,
You said, "the will is public record and is handled in court, whereas the trust is a private matter that is handled outside of court."

The question I have, "Is the will always public record?" If the assets were put into the Trust, would the will be public record? I can cite several personal situations where the will never became "public record" because assets were appropriately placed into the Trust, or the remaining assets were not of the nature to be under the jurisdiction of the probate court.

The more knowledge I gain about revocable trusts, the more I realize how they can be manipulated by Trustees (as evidenced by this forum). I think this is the concern of the OP.

The OP said, "The trustee (a relative) has been managing the trust for 16 years, with little if any oversight from other family members, ..."

This is different from your understanding, "Since the will and trust have just recently been put into management by the trustee,". Even though the death was recent, it is not as though this Trustee is unfamiliar with the Trust.

I think a real question will be, "Was there elder abuse?".
 
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D

Dandy Don

Senior Member
The will is public record IF the trustee or executor chooses to file it at the county courthouse probate court.

I would also suspect elder abuse but the poster would need to consult with a family law attorney to find out what evidence or proof would be needed, which may be difficult to produce.
 
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