Layed off, what are my rights?

I live in Ohio, and my company is laying people off. A few people were not allowed back to their desks to pack up their stuff, and had to rely on other people to get their stuff. Is this legal, can they bar you from getting your stuff?

bigd43606 said:

I live in Ohio, and my company is laying people off. A few people were not allowed back to their desks to pack up their stuff, and had to rely on other people to get their stuff. Is this legal, can they bar you from getting your stuff?

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Yes. It may be shipped to you, or they may call you to come pick it up. Allowing employees back to their desks is a potential security risk.

Also, your rights are to find another job, or seek unemployment benefits. That pretty much sums it up.

bigd43606 said:

Is this legal, can they bar you from getting your stuff?

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actually, it isn't legal. You can call the police and request them to assist you in getting your property.

justalayman said:

actually, it isn't legal. You can call the police and request them to assist you in getting your property.

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They're not legally required to let the laid-off employee back to his/her desk to pack up his/her stuff him/herself. They're only legally required to ensure the laid-off employee receives his/her stuff in a timely manner.

eerelations said:

They're not legally required to let the laid-off employee back to his/her desk to pack up his/her stuff him/herself. They're only legally required to ensure the laid-off employee receives his/her stuff in a timely manner.

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This is the correct answer.

There are MANY reasons I can think of to not allow laid off employees back to their workstations.... starting with the theft of company property and deletion and/or destruction of company files.

tell that to the police when they show up. I have seen it done.

The company is expressing control over private property by not either allowing or at least providing the private property to its owner at the time of discharge. I have seen where the police were called and they did a simple standby.

In the alternative, if the employer did not give the private property to the rightful owner, that person could file a complaint for conversion or theft. How far it would get is debatable. I don't think it would get far, in most cases but it is a legit charge. It generally gets the employer motivated to make sure the employees possessions are given to them now, not later.

In a line of work I used to do, it was not unusual for the employee to have anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000 worth of work related euqipment. You can best believe the employees were not leaving without that going with them and rightfully so.

I do understand the companies position and they can refuse entry if they wish but the employee does have legal rights to their property without delay.

I would be more than willing to listen if you have support for the "timely manner" but I doubt there is legal support.

One other thing that can come in to play. In the situation I spoke of before, or inmany situations, the employees possessions are required for them to work in their field. Refusing the possessions to be released when the employee leaves puts that employee in jeopardy of not being able to take new work since they do not have and have no real idea when they will get their possessions. In that case, the former employer is subject to a suit for damages due to those losses.

justalayman said:

tell that to the police when they show up. I have seen it done.

The company is expressing control over private property by not either allowing or at least providing the private property to its owner at the time of discharge. I have seen where the police were called and they did a simple standby.

In the alternative, if the employer did not give the private property to the rightful owner, that person could file a complaint for conversion or theft. How far it would get is debatable. I don't think it would get far, in most cases but it is a legit charge. It generally gets the employer motivated to make sure the employees possessions are given to them now, not later.

In a line of work I used to do, it was not unusual for the employee to have anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000 worth of work related euqipment. You can best believe the employees were not leaving without that going with them and rightfully so.

I do understand the companies position and they can refuse entry if they wish but the employee does have legal rights to their property without delay.

I would be more than willing to listen if you have support for the "timely manner" but I doubt there is legal support.

One other thing that can come in to play. In the situation I spoke of before, or inmany situations, the employees possessions are required for them to work in their field. Refusing the possessions to be released when the employee leaves puts that employee in jeopardy of not being able to take new work since they do not have and have no real idea when they will get their possessions. In that case, the former employer is subject to a suit for damages due to those losses.

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Hold up there.

No one is saying that employees aren't legally allowed to demand their personal items. However, there is no law in any jurisdiction that says that the employer must allow the laid off employee back into the work area immediately to do so.

Please state the statute you refer to.

cyjeff said:

Hold up there.

No one is saying that employees aren't legally allowed to demand their personal items. However, there is no law in any jurisdiction that says that the employer must allow the laid off employee back into the work area immediately to do so.

Please state the statute you refer to.

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reasd this from one of my previous posts:

I do understand the companies position and they can refuse entry if they wish but the employee does have legal rights to their property without delay.

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Did you misunderstand something there?

While the employer does have the legal right to restrict access to anything within their control, the employee also has a right to their property right then and there. The company has no legal right to hold the property and doing so is illegal.

Please state the statute you refer to

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Please be more specific and relate this to what part of my post you are referring to.

No one is saying that employees aren't legally allowed to demand their personal items

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actually ee said:

They're only legally required to ensure the laid-off employee receives his/her stuff in a timely manner.

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I simply stated that the employer has no right to hold the property, at all and the employee has every legal right to his property, right then and there.

I never said the employer had the legal right to hold onto laid-off employees' property.

There is a difference between an employer holding an employee's property, and an employer refusing to allow a laid off employee back into the work area. As long as the employer PROMPTLY mails the employee's property off to him, that's not "holding" it.

About six years ago a former employer of mine allowed a terminated employee to go back into her office to collect her personal belongings. In the 15 minutes she was there, she deleted several key files, did $2000 damage to a computer, and cancelled all the travel arrangments for all the upper management team for the rest of the calendar year (it was October).

With that in mind, I'll be more than happy to tell the police why I didn't let a terminated employee back into the work area, and show them the UPS receipt where I sent it off to him.

eerelations said:

I never said the employer had the legal right to hold onto laid-off employees' property.

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neither did I.

With that in mind, I'll be more than happy to tell the police why I didn't let a terminated employee back into the work area, and show them the UPS receipt where I sent it off to him.

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You don't quite understand my point. If I am terminated, when I leave that property, either I am allowed to take all my possessions with me or the police are getting a phone call before I leave.

As long as the employer PROMPTLY mails the employee's property off to him, that's not "holding" it.

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Yes, that is holding it. If it does not leave with the employee due to your actions, you are holding it. Like I said before, a quick call to the police generally shakes things loose. I have seen it done.




In your situation, it would appear this person was left alone to gather their possessions. A simple escort would remedy that.

And if 50 or 60 people are all being laid off at the same time? I don't know about you, but I don't have enough escorts for all of them.

justalayman said:

neither did I.

You don't quite understand my point. If I am terminated, when I leave that property, either I am allowed to take all my possessions with me or the police are getting a phone call before I leave.

Yes, that is holding it. If it does not leave with the employee due to your actions, you are holding it. Like I said before, a quick call to the police generally shakes things loose. I have seen it done.

In your situation, it would appear this person was left alone to gather their possessions. A simple escort would remedy that.

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layman, I don't know what your experiences are, but I can speak to mine:

When employees are hired, part of their hiring agreement says that items brought and stored on company property are just that - property of the company. This doesn't mean that the company wants to hold on to your family photos or reference books - it simply means that you essentially give up your right to have immediate access to your property when terminated.

Personal and company property is commingled in everyone's cubicles. Escorts cannot be expected to know which is which. "Breaking down" cubes after a termination involves many departments, who are more knowledgeable on what is "ours" & what isn't; additionally, they are also to remove any proprietary information they find in the process (contact lists, engineering schematics etc).

On a few occasions, people have seen fit to throw a tantrum over their stuff. I have, on two occasions, had to speak to a police officer (with corporate counsel also present), and neither incident resulted in any action. The key to strategically dealing with terminations is well-planned execution that covers all bases.

Dougthegreat;2147274]

When employees are hired, part of their hiring agreement says that items brought and stored on company property are just that - property of the company.

that is downright hilarious

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This doesn't mean that the company wants to hold on to your family photos or reference books - it simply means that you essentially give up your right to have immediate access to your property when terminated.

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BS. If you sign any such agreement, you are foolish. I have worked jobs where I bring $50k worth of equipment with me. You think my boss has a claim to that? Think again. They don't. Not even for a little while.

Personal and company property is commingled in everyone's cubicles

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ok

. Escorts cannot be expected to know which is which.

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So, how do they know what to send the employee in the mail??

"Breaking down" cubes after a termination involves many departments, who are more knowledgeable on what is "ours" & what isn't; additionally, they are also to remove any proprietary information they find in the process (contact lists, engineering schematics etc).

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Oh, I see, you are arbitrarily deciding on what is mine and what isn't. Boy, isn;t that nice of you. It sounds an awful lot like the same thing you are implying the employee is doing to you.

btw: if this person wants the proprietary info, it is already off-site anyway.

On a few occasions, people have seen fit to throw a tantrum over their stuff. I have, on two occasions, had to speak to a police officer (with corporate counsel also present), and neither incident resulted in any action.

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Meaning what? No action by you? No action by the police? No action be the ex-employee? Without knowledge of the entire situation, that statement is meaningless.

Like I said, I have seen the opposite. The police simply asked if there was some reason they would not give the ex-employees property to them and with no LEGAL justification, it was suggested they turn over the ex-employees property.

The key to strategically dealing with terminations is well-planned execution that covers all bases.

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Cover whatever you want. A proper addressing of the issues with the police generally results in the ex-employee leaving with their property in hand. If they act a fool, they tend to leave without their property and can end up with a night in the poky.


So, since this is a legal advice site, would anybody care to support their claims of righteousness? Laws, court opinions, anything?

cbg

And if 50 or 60 people are all being laid off at the same time? I don't know about you, but I don't have enough escorts for all of them.

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It sounds like you would have a really big problem then and I do mean your problem, not the employees. If you did this without a process in place to do what you believe you needed to do, then it is your shortcoming, not mine and there is no reason I should suffer.
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So ultimately, you claim the employers rights are superior to the former employees rights, right?

If you folks found something that works for you, then great but always remember; they are people YOU hired and YOU investigated and YOU decided they were a good fit for your company. If you fear their actions when terminating them, what does that say about you and your company?

justalayman said:

You don't quite understand my point. If I am terminated, when I leave that property, either I am allowed to take all my possessions with me or the police are getting a phone call before I leave.

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Please cite the law that gives you that right.

You voluntarily bring your personal belongings to the employer's location. You are allowed on that location at the employer's sufferance. If the employer withdraws its sufferance, you do not have the legal right to demand that they drop everything and let you get your things (or that they give you your things before you leave the premises. All they have to do is make sure the things are delivered to you within a reasonable time frame.

But feel free to provide the law that backs you up.