Is this considered elder abuse/neglect?

katzzs · Jan 16, 2009

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho
My sister and I had hoped to keep my Alheimers (both) parents in their home that they love until the end. In the beginning(about a year ago)it was easy-dementia was only occasional. Now it is a constant-I had to call the police 2 months ago because my Dad was threatening to murder all of us and I was scared. (please don't berate me for not seeing the writing on the wall at that time....) Their doctor has told me she will fill out the form stating they cannot care for themselves. My sis and I both have durable POAs.

My Dad fell recently fell and couldn't get up-my sister and her husband had to go over and get him up. Sis and I do/did EVERYTHING for them- shower my Dad, all meals, etc.-but were not there 24/7. I've had to step back (for my health-I was a wreck to see these 2 wonderful people that I adore become my children...) so I no longer go over. Sis said she would do all herself "she does anyway" according to her. I know for a fact she is not there for them 24/7-more like 6 hrs. per day. She has refused to see an attorney with me, visit "homes" do anything that would indicate she agrees what needs to be done. While I don't relish taking her/them to court for guardianship (that is what the police would have to be done but I didn't know that) , is that what needs to be done? Could the law come after her (and me to some extent I guess) saying we neglected them and charge us with elder abuse? Dad's next fall could be down the stairs and he'll be killed.

Thank you all so much. I write this with tears in my eyes.

MaryWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

BlondiePB · Jan 16, 2009

,,

katzzs said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho
My sister and I had hoped to keep my Alheimers (both) parents in their home that they love until the end. In the beginning(about a year ago)it was easy-dementia was only occasional. Now it is a constant-I had to call the police 2 months ago because my Dad was threatening to murder all of us and I was scared. (please don't berate me for not seeing the writing on the wall at that time....) Their doctor has told me she will fill out the form stating they cannot care for themselves. My sis and I both have durable POAs.

My Dad fell recently fell and couldn't get up-my sister and her husband had to go over and get him up. Sis and I do/did EVERYTHING for them- shower my Dad, all meals, etc.-but were not there 24/7. I've had to step back (for my health-I was a wreck to see these 2 wonderful people that I adore become my children...) so I no longer go over. Sis said she would do all herself "she does anyway" according to her. I know for a fact she is not there for them 24/7-more like 6 hrs. per day. She has refused to see an attorney with me, visit "homes" do anything that would indicate she agrees what needs to be done. While I don't relish taking her/them to court for guardianship (that is what the police would have to be done but I didn't know that) , is that what needs to be done? Could the law come after her (and me to some extent I guess) saying we neglected them and charge us with elder abuse? Dad's next fall could be down the stairs and he'll be killed.

Thank you all so much. I write this with tears in my eyes.

MaryWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Do you and sis have co-POA or does the POA state alternate POAs? If alternate POAs, who is the first listed agent?

Yes, you're looking at elder abuse. The physician stated that your parents cannot care for themselves meaning, IMO, that your parents need 24/7 caretaker(s).

katzzs · Jan 16, 2009

continued

We are co-each one of us has a POA from each parent listing us individually.

Thank you so much.

Mary

BlondiePB · Jan 17, 2009

katzzs said:
We are co-each one of us has a POA from each parent listing us individually.

Thank you so much.

Mary

Please clarify: One parent has you as sole POA with no other alternate. The other parent has your sister as sole POA with no alternate. Is this correct?

Please do not use hypens for periods to end sentences. Thank you.

katzzs · Jan 17, 2009

Sorry about the hyphens. I just cannot seem to get my act together so I apologize.

Our POA's state "Joe Smith (Dad) gives"Mary Smith (me) Power of Attorney over" and then it lists everything. It is financial, health, their entire lives. Then we have one that states my Mother's name giving me POA and 2 others listing my sister. So, in total, we have 4 Power of Attorneys floating around.

I'm on a mission to find my copies so I can give you the correct wording. I must find them so if you would rather wait until I do, I will respond with the exact phrasing.

Thank you again for your kind helpfulness. This has been one of the worst weeks of my life so I appreciate your insightfullness (sp?) and professionalism.

Mary

katzzs · Jan 17, 2009

I found the Power of Attorneys. They are entitled "Idaho General Durable Power of Attorney." That is followed by a paragraph of legal talk and then "John Smith (Dad w/ his address) appoint Mary Smith (me+address) as my agent (attorney in fact) to act for me in any lawful way with respect to the following initialed subjects." The last line states "all of the powers listed above." That is what is checked. Each parent signed the 4 forms and we had them notorized of course.

All of these were done without an attorney. We got them off a legal website, but I have a very sinking feeling they are incorrect and we don't have any powers.

I guess the next step is to consult an elder law attorney asap by myself. I was trying to avoid that because I'm afraid of him/her turning us in to I'm not sure who for neglect of my parents, even though I've taken myself out of that picture of caring for them.

Indiana Filer · Jan 17, 2009

katzzs said:
I found the Power of Attorneys. They are entitled "Idaho General Durable Power of Attorney." That is followed by a paragraph of legal talk and then "John Smith (Dad w/ his address) appoint Mary Smith (me+address) as my agent (attorney in fact) to act for me in any lawful way with respect to the following initialed subjects." The last line states "all of the powers listed above." That is what is checked. Each parent signed the 4 forms and we had them notorized of course.

All of these were done without an attorney. We got them off a legal website, but I have a very sinking feeling they are incorrect and we don't have any powers.

I guess the next step is to consult an elder law attorney asap by myself. I was trying to avoid that because I'm afraid of him/her turning us in to I'm not sure who for neglect of my parents, even though I've taken myself out of that picture of caring for them.

It's possible that the second POA that was signed by each parent VOIDED the first POA. So if the POA was signed giving you POA first, then the POA was signed giving your sister POA, it's possible only your sister is POA.

There's a reason people need attorneys. You should probably speak to an attorney about getting guardianship. Or co-guardianship with your sister.

anteater · Jan 17, 2009

Indiana Filer said:
It's possible that the second POA that was signed by each parent VOIDED the first POA. So if the POA was signed giving you POA first, then the POA was signed giving your sister POA, it's possible only your sister is POA...

Possible, but probably not. Unless a POA is explicitly revoked, it remains valid. A principal can appoint as many agents as he/she wants to.

BlondiePB · Jan 17, 2009

katzzs said:
I found the Power of Attorneys. They are entitled "Idaho General Durable Power of Attorney." That is followed by a paragraph of legal talk and then "John Smith (Dad w/ his address) appoint Mary Smith (me+address) as my agent (attorney in fact) to act for me in any lawful way with respect to the following initialed subjects." The last line states "all of the powers listed above." That is what is checked. Each parent signed the 4 forms and we had them notorized of course.

All of these were done without an attorney. We got them off a legal website, but I have a very sinking feeling they are incorrect and we don't have any powers.

I guess the next step is to consult an elder law attorney asap by myself. I was trying to avoid that because I'm afraid of him/her turning us in to I'm not sure who for neglect of my parents, even though I've taken myself out of that picture of caring for them.

First of all, if those POAs were signed by your parents when your parents had dementia, none of them are legally valid. Seeing an elder law attorney is an excellent decision.

From what you have posted about your parents, they either need to be moved to an Assisted Living Facility together in a suite or have caretakers 24/7. They are not safe by themselves.

Guardianship is an option for your parents, as suggested. However, co-guardianship is a bad idea. If you don't want to step up to the plate and take care of your parents, what is your goal? Read up on Idaho's guardianship statutes under probate code. You'll be very interested in the section of priority of who is chosen for being a guardian.

katzzs · Jan 18, 2009

You are absolutely correct in everything you said. I'm seeing an attorney on Tuesday. I will go alone, without my sister. I quit a good job to take care of my parents so that is my goal.

I'm also headed over to find that guardianship statute you mentioned. Thank you so much for everything.

Mary

Is this considered elder abuse/neglect?

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