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Interpreted sign wrongly and parked at commerical zone in NYC

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tigersgt

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

Hi everyone, I only have a year of driving experience and rarely drive to the city that often (I live in Staten Island). On Saturday, I parked my car on 35th Street & Broadway. There is a sign saying "NO STANDING, EXCEPT, COMMERCIAL VEHICLES, METERED PARKING". So I though that means I can park there if I pay for the meter. I paid $2 for the meter and went to pick up something. I came back after 30mins and found that I got a parking ticket, "No Std Com Mtr Zone".

I am going to plead "Not Guilty". I would like to know what is my chances of winning if I request a hearing? My arguments are as following:


1. We have never learned those signs when getting a driving license. So they should make the sign more clear by saying commercial vehicles only.


2. The parking meter doesn't say anything commercial vehicles only. That street is exclusive to commercial vehicles since the sign doesn't indicate any exception time.


3. I talked to a traffic officer before in another area and he told me that I can park at there as long as I paid the meter.


4. A lot of people are confused by this sign since a lot of experienced drivers told me that it's a legal spot to park as long as I paid.

Anyone have any comments or advices? I did some research online and in this forum. I found that a lot of people have the same exact experience as mine. But so far I couldn't see any solution or winning case for this situation. Please let me know if anyone won in this case and let me know if there are any valid arguments. Thank you in advance for the help.
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
There is a sign saying "NO STANDING, EXCEPT, COMMERCIAL VEHICLES, METERED PARKING"
Well, let's break it down:

NO STANDING: Defined in new york as: § 145. Stand or standing. Means the stopping of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers.


EXCEPT COMMERCIAL VEHICLES: Well, I suppose that if you're a commercial vehicle, you'd know it.

METERED PARKING: Said commercial vehicles would have to use the meter.


For the record, I only pulled the EXACT definition of standing for New York because I knew you wouldn't trust a paraphrase...
 

patstew

Member
3. I talked to a traffic officer before in another area and he told me that I can park at there as long as I paid the meter.
Did you get that officer's name or badge number? That could help, but... I'm guessing you didn't.

I'm also guessing English isn't your first language ("advices" was the tipoff). Take a picture of the sign with you to court. Hey, it couldn't hurt.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
Here is a tip for parking downtown.

When you are in doubt as to whether a parking space is legal, look around at the other vehicles parked around it.

If all you saw up and down the street were delivery and commercial vehicles, you should have known better.

Ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.
 

tigersgt

Junior Member
Take a picture of the sign with you to court. Hey, it couldn't hurt.
Take a picture of the sign is not a problem. But do you think they will accept my explaination?


If all you saw up and down the street were delivery and commercial vehicles, you should have known better.
Thanks for the advice. At that time I didn't see any commercial vehicles around. All around is just regular passenger cars. Also, a 50 year-old man, who drives an old Camry, paid the meter and park there too. (Of cause he ended up getting a ticket too). All these made me feel that I am allow to park there.

Anyone has any valid argument?
 

tigersgt

Junior Member
C'mon folks. This isn't even ignorance of the LAW. There was a sign, clear as day!
I totally understand your point. Since I did some research online and found that a lot of people have the same exact experience as mine. So there is a reason for me to believe that, to a certain extend, the sign isn't clear enough. Why can't it say "Commercial Vehicle Only"? The sign will be much clear just by adding the word "only".
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I totally understand your point. Since I did some research online and found that a lot of people have the same exact experience as mine. So there is a reason for me to believe that, to a certain extend, the sign isn't clear enough. Why can't it say "Commercial Vehicle Only"? The sign will be much clear just by adding the word "only".
Because "Except Commercial Vehicle" says the same thing. :rolleyes:
 

NN3903

Junior Member
It really isn't all that obvious, and is especially confusing when the street is lined with passenger vehicles. It says "except commercial, metered vehicles" which for whatever lead me and the person I was with to believe it was commercial and metered vehicles, maybe it's the way it's written on the sign, but there is definitely something very deceiving about the sign and I'm sure that's the way the city wants it!
 

proud_parent

Senior Member
It really isn't all that obvious, and is especially confusing when the street is lined with passenger vehicles. It says "except commercial, metered vehicles" which for whatever lead me and the person I was with to believe it was commercial and metered vehicles, maybe it's the way it's written on the sign, but there is definitely something very deceiving about the sign and I'm sure that's the way the city wants it!
Considering that you've posted to a year-old thread, I can see why you would think so.
 

NN3903

Junior Member
And you are reminding me of why I dislike lawyers.

I posted to this thread because I recently had the issue and googled it and the thread came up. Sorry if that makes me an idiot in your opinion, but the responses were not helpful and I felt they deserved a response.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
And you are reminding me of why I dislike lawyers.

I posted to this thread because I recently had the issue and googled it and the thread came up. Sorry if that makes me an idiot in your opinion, but the responses were not helpful and I felt they deserved a response.
Yes, I agree. Your response was DEFINITELY not helpful. :rolleyes:
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
And you are reminding me of why I dislike lawyers.

I posted to this thread because I recently had the issue and googled it and the thread came up. Sorry if that makes me an idiot in your opinion, but the responses were not helpful and I felt they deserved a response.
This thread hadn't been touched in 16 months. What makes you think any response would be read by the OP?
 

Wittgenstein

Junior Member
The Original Post and all of its future responses remain here on the Web, for the benefit of all future users/Googlers, not just the Original Poster. Thus, we're potentially contributing to the overall usefulness of the Original Post right now, as I type.

And I actually found NN3903's response quite helpful, since I can more clearly identify the source of his confusion, when he points out that "No Standing, Except, Commercial Vehicles, Metered Parking" can be reasonably interpreted in a way similar to "Women's Bathroom, No Entry, Except, Women, Children under the age of 3", i.e., "No Standing, Except, X's [are permitted], [and] Y [is permitted]", instead of the intended message of "No Standing, Except, X's, [when standing in the manner of] Y"; that is, one could plausibly read the sign as saying that Commercial Vehicles can stand and do not have to pay the meter, while any other vehicle must pay the meter.

The grammar & punctuation of this street sign is (perhaps of necessity) nonstandard, after all; and even then, to convey the intended message more precisely, a punctuation mark other than a comma would have been in order between the words "Vehicles" and "Metered" -- such as "Commercial Vehicles (Metered Parking)" -- to indicate what a comma in this instance fails to indicate: that there are not two classes of vehicles welcome in the spot, but rather only one class (Commercial Vehicles), with one significant qualification (metered parking of commercial vehicles, only).
 

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