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Where to apply for Guardianship?

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Anly

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? California AND/OR Kentucky

Hello!

I reside in California. I have just been called out to Kentucky, where my older sister resided with her son and daughter-in-law in Bowling Green. She has terminal Alzheimer's/Dementia, and was admitted to the hospital last week for "failure to thrive". She dropped to 72 lbs. and had a couple of bedsores. This alerted Social Services as possible neglect so they would not allow her to return to her son's home. Instead Social Services has been walking me through the legal process of getting Emergency Guardianship here in Bowling Green, KY, so I could make the urgent medical and welfare decisions on her behalf. (and, I must say they do a great job here in Kentucky)

The good news is she is doing better and was released from the Hospital yesterday, and I found a good care facility that deals with her specific disease that willingly accepted her as a patient. I chose to keep her in Kentucky where she could be closer to her family, since it's easier for me to fly out to visit her than it is for them to. Since she is terminal I felt it would be cruel to take my sister so far away from them as I honestly feel they just didn't know what they were doing (they have two children who are thriving) in addition to being really isolated living miles from town.

1. I will have to file for permanent guardianship, so I can manage her all of her affairs. Since I reside in California, should I file for Permanent Guardianship in Kentucky or California?

2. Secondly. She gets a $1500 monthly annuity. (it's a 15 year annuity) Her monthly expense at the care facility is almost $5000 a month with possible additional expenses. I will try to apply for Medicare to defray some of those costs but they will not cover it all. The annuity is locked down tight and cannot be touched. So, I was wondering, when I become her Legal Guardian is it possible to take out a loan, in her name, using the annuity as collateral to pay for her care costs? Then, when she passes all the financial obligations would be resolved through probate, wouldn't they?

Thank you in advance for any advice you may be able to provide.
 


anteater

Senior Member
You would apply in Kentucky.

On #2, you should keep your questions in one forum. Otherwise, you get responses and replies scattered.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/life-insurance-annuities-16/loan-against-annuity-471017.html#post2280290

And, sometimes, you end up adding information in one thread that you don't in the other. For example:
She receives a $1500 monthly annuity from my father's trust. (it's a 15 year annuity)
Who is the actual annuity owner? A trust has a trustee. Have you discussed this with the trustee? Is this an immediate annuity - one where a lump sum was paid to the insurance company in return for a series of monthly payments for a period of 15 years?
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
1. I will have to file for permanent guardianship, so I can manage her all of her affairs. Since I reside in California, should I file for Permanent Guardianship in Kentucky or California?
Kentucky, in the county where she resides.
2. Secondly. She gets a $1500 monthly annuity. (it's a 15 year annuity) Her monthly expense at the care facility is almost $5000 a month with possible additional expenses. I will try to apply for Medicare to defray some of those costs but they will not cover it all. The annuity is locked down tight and cannot be touched. So, I was wondering, when I become her Legal Guardian is it possible to take out a loan, in her name, using the annuity as collateral to pay for her care costs? Then, when she passes all the financial obligations would be resolved through probate, wouldn't they?
Do you mean Medicaid? Medicare only covers a short period of time for a qualified admission only.

Most states require guardians to have an attorney. Taking out a loan in the name of a ward will require the "blessing" of the court. Seek the advice of an attorney in Kentucky that does guardianships.
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
Getting a loan against the annuity is not a good idea. All you would be accomplishing in the short term is paying her expenses but you would be depleting the asset down to nothing eventually where you would not even have enough cash on hand to pay ANY monthly expenses.

Have you tried to find rates at other care facilities that might charge less then $5,000 a month?

Does the trust have enough in it to be able to afford the $5,000 payment, other than the $1,500 monthly annuity?

Does the lady have other assets that could be spent?
 

Anly

Junior Member
You would apply in Kentucky.

On #2, you should keep your questions in one forum. Otherwise, you get responses and replies scattered.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/life-insurance-annuities-16/loan-against-annuity-471017.html#post2280290

And, sometimes, you end up adding information in one thread that you don't in the other. For example:
Hi, Anteater thank you for replying. I appreciate the advice about where to post - I only saw the annuity section after I posted here.

Who is the actual annuity owner? A trust has a trustee. Have you discussed this with the trustee? Is this an immediate annuity - one where a lump sum was paid to the insurance company in return for a series of monthly payments for a period of 15 years?
The actual annuity owner is my sister. My brother, is the trustee, and he purchased it for her per what was written in my father's trust. I have discussed it with my brother, and he discussed the annuity with either the attorney or insurance company to let me know that the annuity could not be touched, and got the suggestion that I take out a loan against the annuity. I will find out exactly what kind of annuity it is, but from what you describe it sounds exactly like an immediate annuity.

Kentucky, in the county where she resides.

Do you mean Medicaid? Medicare only covers a short period of time for a qualified admission only.

Most states require guardians to have an attorney. Taking out a loan in the name of a ward will require the "blessing" of the court. Seek the advice of an attorney in Kentucky that does guardianships.
Hi Blondie, thank you for your response. I don't know what I mean - Medicaid or Medicare. :confused: These were suggestions that were made to me by the Social Worker who is helping me. All of this is new to me.

I will seek the advice of an attorney here in Kentucky. The state has assigned an attorney to represent my sister in court next week when we all appear to submit the Emergency Guardianship. Would that be an appropriate person to ask for resources as to a good Guardianship attorney? What exactly is the title of such an attorney, an elder law attorney?

Getting a loan against the annuity is not a good idea. All you would be accomplishing in the short term is paying her expenses but you would be depleting the asset down to nothing eventually where you would not even have enough cash on hand to pay ANY monthly expenses.

Have you tried to find rates at other care facilities that might charge less then $5,000 a month?
Hi Dandy Don, thank you for replying.

I visited 6 care facilities in the area and within a 30 mile radius. This care facility was the least expensive of them all at $155 a day, or $4650 a month.

Does the trust have enough in it to be able to afford the $5,000 payment, other than the $1,500 monthly annuity?
There is only $12,500 left in the trust for my sister, in a lump sum, other than the annuity.

Does the lady have other assets that could be spent?
There are absolutely no other assets that can be used.

Of course I prefer not to waste any of her annuity. But, as I described in my first post, she has been diagnosed as terminal, with at most 6 to 12 months to live. Had she stayed where she was the doctor said she would be dead in one month. So, as it stands now the best case scenario is that she would live two years, so my thinking was that her annuity would be plenty to cover her expenses in the care facility she is in now. (I added on the extra year for good measure)
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
Anly, what is your sister's age?

The court appointed attorney represents your sister and only your sister.

Look for a guardian attorney in Elder Law and/or in Probate Law.
 

Anly

Junior Member
Anly, what is your sister's age?
55

The court appointed attorney represents your sister and only your sister.

Look for a guardian attorney in Elder Law and/or in Probate Law.
Thank you Blondie. I was referred to a Probate attorney in Bowling Green and spoke to him Friday. He indicated to me that I didn't need an attorney to get permanent guardianship in Kentucky. He told me to contact the county attorney to start the process, which I will be doing Monday.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
55



Thank you Blondie. I was referred to a Probate attorney in Bowling Green and spoke to him Friday. He indicated to me that I didn't need an attorney to get permanent guardianship in Kentucky. He told me to contact the county attorney to start the process, which I will be doing Monday.
I did go to KY statutes tonight to verify needing an attorney, but there was a problem with the website. Do find KY's state statues for guardians/conservators and read them thoroughly.

Make sure your court appointment includes being your sister's health care surrogate/proxy so you can make her medical decisions. Upon being appointed your sister's guardian, sign her up with a Hospice organization if she is not enrolled in one now. Make sure it is a Hospice that will provide care regardless of whether one has insurance. Hospice will not pay for room and board and usually take cases where the one who is terminally ill has 6 months or less left of life.

Then, sign your sister up for Medicaid. Medicaid is state funds that will pay for her nursing home. The cost you reported for her nursing home care is definitely appropriate and, as a matter of fact, reasonable. Next, apply for SSD or SSI for your sister. This process takes longer which is why Medicaid needs to be done first.

Thank you for being a loving sister who is willing to step up to the plate.
 

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