Divorce Stipulation Agreement in NY

quentin1000 · Jun 27, 2009

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

hi, i am looking if someone can opine on the following: if i follow the child support guidelines and based on my income, i'd need to pay about $4,500 a month. my wife is willing to accept 2,000 a month - we want amicable divorce plus she is willing to work with me on this one etc. so here is the question: if the wife and the husband agree to a smaller child support than the child support guideline, is that a problem? would the judge not sign the divorce papers? in my case here, she would settle for roughly half of what she'd get if she really fought me etc. or is it ok to basically put anything in the stipulation and as long as both parties agree (wife and husband), then it's fine with the judge? or would i need to explain why a much smaller settlement is being agreed to. in advance, thx for your help folks.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

LdiJ · Jun 27, 2009

quentin1000 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

hi, i am looking if someone can opine on the following: if i follow the child support guidelines and based on my income, i'd need to pay about $4,500 a month. my wife is willing to accept 2,000 a month - we want amicable divorce plus she is willing to work with me on this one etc. so here is the question: if the wife and the husband agree to a smaller child support than the child support guideline, is that a problem? would the judge not sign the divorce papers? in my case here, she would settle for roughly half of what she'd get if she really fought me etc. or is it ok to basically put anything in the stipulation and as long as both parties agree (wife and husband), then it's fine with the judge? or would i need to explain why a much smaller settlement is being agreed to. in advance, thx for your help folks.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

First, she isn't agreeing to half of what she would get if she really fought you, she is agreeing to half of the minimum she would get from a judge, without fighting at all.

The judge may very well have questions as to why you are agreeing to less than half of the guidelines...particularly if anything else looks "off" financially.

Also, you need to be aware that child support is "fluid" and no matter what you agree upon now, she can ask for, and receive virtually automatically, a modification in the future.

quentin1000 · Jun 27, 2009

thx very much.

are you saying that in the future if my ex finds out that i make more money, she can go to judge and get the child support payment modified? just to be clear - i do want to fully support my kid, no question.

does it change matters if i tell you that i will be making a sizable upfront distribution to her day one too? this distribution is about 25% of my net worth - so again, this may be a problem, correct?

or can i just agree to pay the $4.5k a month as per the guidelines and not give her anything upfront? she just gets the monthly payment that is tax free for up until the kid is 21.

also, arent there income levels that judges look at too? in ny, i think i read somewhere on this site that the top bracket is 80k or so, or does the judge look at the last year's income on W-2? obviously, it does not cost $4.5k a month to raise a kid in NYC. the ex can basically quit her job and sit at home getting money tax free.

also, i assume bonus is considered income for the purposes of child support too, correct - or is it just base salary as bonus is never 100% guaranteed?

again, many thx!

LdiJ · Jun 27, 2009

quentin1000 said:
thx very much.

are you saying that in the future if my ex finds out that i make more money, she can go to judge and get the child support payment modified? just to be clear - i do want to fully support my kid, no question.

does it change matters if i tell you that i will be making a sizable upfront distribution to her day one too? this distribution is about 25% of my net worth - so again, this may be a problem, correct?

or can i just agree to pay the $4.5k a month as per the guidelines and not give her anything upfront? she just gets the monthly payment that is tax free for up until the kid is 21.

also, arent there income levels that judges look at too? in ny, i think i read somewhere on this site that the top bracket is 80k or so, or does the judge look at the last year's income on W-2? obviously, it does not cost $4.5k a month to raise a kid in NYC. the ex can basically quit her job and sit at home getting money tax free.

also, i assume bonus is considered income for the purposes of child support too, correct - or is it just base salary as bonus is never 100% guaranteed?

again, many thx!

Here is the deal....

She is entitled to 50% of the marital assets (all assets that accrued during the marriage) and she is ALSO entitled to full guideline support. Any premarital assets that have not been comingled would be separate property. Therefore, its possible that a judge might feel that 25% of your net worth is not a fair property division.

She could even be eligible for alimony/spousal support depending on the length of your marriage.

She is allowed to periodically request modification to the child support as your income increases. You are allowed to periodically request a downward modification of child support if your income significantly declines through no fault of your own.

Apparently she is agreeing to less of a property settlement than she is entitled to receive, and less child support than she is entitled to receive, and is apparently not asking for alimony either. I hope that she has a good attorney advising her (and you should hope so too) because if not, your settlement could get thrown out.

quentin1000 · Jun 27, 2009

much appreciate, once again.

she does not have an attorney, yet. she may actually not even hire one, she said. 1) if i am understanding you correctly, your advice is for her to have an attorney so it all looks legit; 2) wouldn't then any decent attorney advise her to take the maximum - both upfront plus the monthly child support? as i said, she is willing to settle for less (as a matter of principle etc). can't she just flat out say to the judge or to her attorney that those are her wishes, period? or we could have this sentence in the stipulation agreement: the wife was advised to hire a lawyer but refused. or the wife's actions are against her lawyer's advice. wouldn't this make the judge happy?

close to impossible would be to settle everything upfront (give her 50% upfront) and then have her return the money to me the next day?? but it is a pipe dream i am sure, plus that may have tax implications for me of some sort (having to pay tax on the monies given to me).

lastly, is the child support payment set off the last year's income or do they take 3 years?

i am getting invaluable advice here, and i can't say thank you enough. much appreciated.

LdiJ · Jun 27, 2009

quentin1000 said:
much appreciate, once again.

she does not have an attorney, yet. she may actually not even hire one, she said. 1) if i am understanding you correctly, your advice is for her to have an attorney so it all looks legit; 2) wouldn't then any decent attorney advise her to take the maximum - both upfront plus the monthly child support? as i said, she is willing to settle for less (as a matter of principle etc). can't she just flat out say to the judge or to her attorney that those are her wishes, period? or we could have this sentence in the stipulation agreement: the wife was advised to hire a lawyer but refused. or the wife's actions are against her lawyer's advice. wouldn't this make the judge happy?

close to impossible would be to settle everything upfront (give her 50% upfront) and then have her return the money to me the next day?? but it is a pipe dream i am sure, plus that may have tax implications for me of some sort (having to pay tax on the monies given to me).

lastly, is the child support payment set off the last year's income or do they take 3 years?

i am getting invaluable advice here, and i can't say thank you enough. much appreciated.

If she doesn't have an attorney, then that leaves the door open for the judge to throw out a property settlement, particularly an uneven one.

Of course an attorney would encourage her to take her fair share of the marital assets and full guideline child support. However, if she decides against that, after being fully informed of her rights by someone OTHER than you and your attorney, then the property settlement portion would fly, but its not guaranteed that every judge will be satisfied with the child support issue.

The one thing that you don't want to have happen, is that she gets to re-open the property settlement years down the road, because there is the appearance of things being hidden from her.

quentin1000 · Jul 5, 2009

hi, i am back with a follow up. here is what is happening now, and i would appreciate an independent view from the forum.

1. i met with an attorney for a free half hour conversation. he basically confirmed/repeated all of the items posted to me as replies here in this thread. it simply i am getting excellent and accurate advice here, hence i am back for more questions!
2. my wife said she would go along with a plan in that she said she'd hire her own attorney and that she would not listen to the advice of her attorney. basically, she wiil settle for about 50% of child support plus money upfront that would equate to about 25% of our assets. again, this is more than enough to raise a kid even in NYC and she is being reasonable i guess plus she is an independent spirit of sorts who does not want to be dependent on anybody. go figure out but of course this works for me. now, i need to have this documented well and blessed by the court. she is ok with including a statement that says something like this: such and such decided to not take her lawyer's advice and therefore is willing to settle for such and such in child support; she is waiving spousal support, period, as she makes decent money herself etc. i guess the key here is that she will have her own attorney who should help her review the doc, thus lending legitimacy and credibility to the argument.

here are my couple of new questions:
1. in this case, would this be accepted by the court? would we need to show up in the court or just the lawyers?
2. out of curiosity, what is a reasonable cost for a separation agreement (i was quoted 2500 minimum and possibly 3000 (in manhattan). is this "reasonable"? the divorce part is $1500 or so, i was told.
3. what is the good website to find lawyers in NYC? i met one that i stumbled upon. i'd like to interview others before i settle on which one i will be using.

again, thanks very much for free advice. appreciate it.

LdiJ · Jul 5, 2009

quentin1000 said:
hi, i am back with a follow up. here is what is happening now, and i would appreciate an independent view from the forum.

1. i met with an attorney for a free half hour conversation. he basically confirmed/repeated all of the items posted to me as replies here in this thread. it simply i am getting excellent and accurate advice here, hence i am back for more questions!
2. my wife said she would go along with a plan in that she said she'd hire her own attorney and that she would not listen to the advice of her attorney. basically, she wiil settle for about 50% of child support plus money upfront that would equate to about 25% of our assets. again, this is more than enough to raise a kid even in NYC and she is being reasonable i guess plus she is an independent spirit of sorts who does not want to be dependent on anybody. go figure out but of course this works for me. now, i need to have this documented well and blessed by the court. she is ok with including a statement that says something like this: such and such decided to not take her lawyer's advice and therefore is willing to settle for such and such in child support; she is waiving spousal support, period, as she makes decent money herself etc. i guess the key here is that she will have her own attorney who should help her review the doc, thus lending legitimacy and credibility to the argument.

here are my couple of new questions:
1. in this case, would this be accepted by the court? would we need to show up in the court or just the lawyers?
2. out of curiosity, what is a reasonable cost for a separation agreement (i was quoted 2500 minimum and possibly 3000 (in manhattan). is this "reasonable"? the divorce part is $1500 or so, i was told.
3. what is the good website to find lawyers in NYC? i met one that i stumbled upon. i'd like to interview others before i settle on which one i will be using.

again, thanks very much for free advice. appreciate it.

Again, the property settlement portion would probably be accepted by the court. However no one can tell you with any certainty if the judge will accept the child support.

Considering that we are talking Manhattan, that sounds like a very reasonable price.

mistoffolees · Jul 5, 2009

LdiJ said:
Again, the property settlement portion would probably be accepted by the court. However no one can tell you with any certainty if the judge will accept the child support.

Considering that we are talking Manhattan, that sounds like a very reasonable price.

However, this is premised on his wife talking to an attorney and not listening to the attorney. When the attorney tells her what she should really be getting, that may change.

LdiJ · Jul 5, 2009

mistoffolees said:
However, this is premised on his wife talking to an attorney and not listening to the attorney. When the attorney tells her what she should really be getting, that may change.

Absolutely. I believe that she understands that she is agreeing to less child support than she is entitled to receive. I am not at all sure that she understands about the marital property.

mistoffolees · Jul 5, 2009

LdiJ said:
Absolutely. I believe that she understands that she is agreeing to less child support than she is entitled to receive. I am not at all sure that she understands about the marital property.

If OP said how long they were married, I missed it. If they've been married long enough, she may not know about the possibility of alimony, either. If his guideline support level would be $4,500 per month, he's making a very good income.

LdiJ · Jul 5, 2009

mistoffolees said:
If OP said how long they were married, I missed it. If they've been married long enough, she may not know about the possibility of alimony, either. If his guideline support level would be $4,500 per month, he's making a very good income.

Child support in NY works out to be about 17% of gross income for one child, so yes, he is making an acceptionally good income.

However, he did say that she was making a good income too...so that may make alimony kind of irrelevant, and there is also the possibility that she is keeping assets in her name, and that the 25% of his net worth works out to be equitable because of that.

However, he has made it clear that she is well aware that she is accepting less support than she would be entitled to receive, while its not anywhere near as clear that she understands that property settlement portion.

In fact, in his very first post, he seemed to believe that less than guideline support was fair specifically BECAUSE she was receiving a settlement of 25% of his net worth...which is what causes me concern regarding the property settlement.

Bali Hai · Jul 6, 2009

quentin1000 said:
hi, i am back with a follow up. here is what is happening now, and i would appreciate an independent view from the forum.

1. i met with an attorney for a free half hour conversation. he basically confirmed/repeated all of the items posted to me as replies here in this thread. it simply i am getting excellent and accurate advice here, hence i am back for more questions!
2. my wife said she would go along with a plan in that she said she'd hire her own attorney and that she would not listen to the advice of her attorney. basically, she wiil settle for about 50% of child support plus money upfront that would equate to about 25% of our assets. again, this is more than enough to raise a kid even in NYC and she is being reasonable i guess plus she is an independent spirit of sorts who does not want to be dependent on anybody. go figure out but of course this works for me. now, i need to have this documented well and blessed by the court. she is ok with including a statement that says something like this: such and such decided to not take her lawyer's advice and therefore is willing to settle for such and such in child support; she is waiving spousal support, period, as she makes decent money herself etc. i guess the key here is that she will have her own attorney who should help her review the doc, thus lending legitimacy and credibility to the argument.

here are my couple of new questions:
1. in this case, would this be accepted by the court? would we need to show up in the court or just the lawyers?
2. out of curiosity, what is a reasonable cost for a separation agreement (i was quoted 2500 minimum and possibly 3000 (in manhattan). is this "reasonable"? the divorce part is $1500 or so, i was told.
3. what is the good website to find lawyers in NYC? i met one that i stumbled upon. i'd like to interview others before i settle on which one i will be using.

again, thanks very much for free advice. appreciate it.

If you both agree to the terms of the divorce decree, I don't see how a knittwitted judge could stop you.

The judge will verify that this is her decision by ordering her to appear. That happened to a friend's wife who didn't want any of her husband's retirement account because she had a good job. My friend told me that the judge damn near went berzerk trying to convince her to take her share of his retirement.

In the end she didn't take the retirement and there wasn't a thing the judge could do about it.

mistoffolees · Jul 6, 2009

Bali Hai said:
If you both agree to the terms of the divorce decree, I don't see how a knittwitted judge could stop you.

The judge will verify that this is her decision by ordering her to appear. That happened to a friend's wife who didn't want any of her husband's retirement account because she had a good job. My friend told me that the judge damn near went berzerk trying to convince her to take her share of his retirement.

In the end she didn't take the retirement and there wasn't a thing the judge could do about it.

You obviously fail to understand the concept of justice. The court is there to ensure that justice is served (although they must operate within the law, of course).

There are many marriages where one spouse has all the power and the other one has no control at all. In those cases, it's very easy for one to overpower the other and take advantage of them, leaving them with little or nothing.

In cases like that, the court is well within its power to give a delay and suggest to the affected party that they should see an attorney. If both parties are represented by attorneys and still decide on a very unequal division, I don't know of any court which would object. But they are well within their rights to suggest that one party get an attorney before agreeing to an uneven division.

Bali Hai · Jul 6, 2009

mistoffolees said:
You obviously fail to understand the concept of justice. The court is there to ensure that justice is served (although they must operate within the law, of course).

There are many marriages where one spouse has all the power and the other one has no control at all. In those cases, it's very easy for one to overpower the other and take advantage of them, leaving them with little or nothing.

In cases like that, the court is well within its power to give a delay and suggest to the affected party that they should see an attorney. If both parties are represented by attorneys and still decide on a very unequal division, I don't know of any court which would object. But they are well within their rights to suggest that one party get an attorney before agreeing to an uneven division.

In my friend's case, neither one of them had an attorney and the judge still had to go along with THEIR agreement.

How do you like those apples??

Divorce Stipulation Agreement in NY

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