Need help finding lawyer in time for upcoming divorce case

etep513 · Nov 15, 2009

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Right now, someone I know is in the process of getting divorced and he asked me for help. He already had three lawyers who did not have satisfactory performance. The person who I know is an immigrant who can only speak broken english. The lawyers he has had up to this point have realized this and taken advantage of this by not explaining things thoroughly, charging him for things extra things that he did not need for his case, and prolonging the legal process. His first lawyer helped him a little bit and ran of with the money later on. The second and third one would literally write bibles about what they were doing, while little/no progress was being made in court. On several occasions, his lawyers would make statements and then contradict himself later on. The lawyer also asked him to pay for legal court transcripts which both sides were supposed to pay for (and the lawyer wanted him to pay for both sides). The all of this has already cost my acquaintance about $30,000 and he still isn't finished divorcing yet.

How can my acquaintance find a lawyer, who is HONEST, does not make contradictory statements, and does not try to exploit his language barrier? He is located in the Allentown area and needs a lawyer for an upcoming court date in December. Does anyone have any suggestions?

mistoffolees · Nov 15, 2009

etep513 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

Right now, someone I know is in the process of getting divorced and he asked me for help. He already had three lawyers who did not have satisfactory performance. The person who I know is an immigrant who can only speak broken english. The lawyers he has had up to this point have realized this and taken advantage of this by not explaining things thoroughly, charging him for things extra things that he did not need for his case, and prolonging the legal process. His first lawyer helped him a little bit and ran of with the money later on. The second and third one would literally write bibles about what they were doing, while little/no progress was being made in court. On several occasions, his lawyers would make statements and then contradict himself later on. The lawyer also asked him to pay for legal court transcripts which both sides were supposed to pay for (and the lawyer wanted him to pay for both sides). The all of this has already cost my acquaintance about $30,000 and he still isn't finished divorcing yet.

How can my acquaintance find a lawyer, who is HONEST, does not make contradictory statements, and does not try to exploit his language barrier? He is located in the Allentown area and needs a lawyer for an upcoming court date in December. Does anyone have any suggestions?

When I hear cases where someone had THREE bad lawyers, I am more inclined to think it's a bad client. if your friend doesn't speak English, then he needs to either find a bi-lingual lawyer or else needs someone bi-lingual to go with him whenever he meets with the attorney.

It's expecting a lot to think that an attorney can properly represent someone who doesn't speak decent English.

etep513 · Nov 15, 2009

mistoffolees said:
When I hear cases where someone had THREE bad lawyers, I am more inclined to think it's a bad client. if your friend doesn't speak English, then he needs to either find a bi-lingual lawyer or else needs someone bi-lingual to go with him whenever he meets with the attorney.

It's expecting a lot to think that an attorney can properly represent someone who doesn't speak decent English.

How can you say he was a bad client? The first lawyer he had took the initial payment and then ran off with it (he was never heard from again). The second and third charged incredible sums of money and made very little progress on the case. With the 2nd and 3rd, they would often write bills for things which were never even done, writes charges for more hours than they actually worked for, encourage him to pay for both sides (for legal legal documents) and make contradictory statements. How can you say that was his fault?

A bilingual lawyer isn't and option, since there are no polish-speaking lawyers in the area. Having a translator isn't an option due to financial reasons. He's on a very tight fixed budget due to a work accident he had several years back.

mistoffolees · Nov 15, 2009

etep513 said:
How can you say he was a bad client? The first lawyer he had took the initial payment and then ran off with it (he was never heard from again). The second and third charged incredible sums of money and made very little progress on the case. With the 2nd and 3rd, they would often write bills for things which were never even done, writes charges for more hours than they actually worked for, encourage him to pay for both sides (for legal legal documents) and make contradictory statements. How can you say that was his fault?

A bilingual lawyer isn't and option, since there are no polish-speaking lawyers in the area. Having a translator isn't an option due to financial reasons. He's on a very tight fixed budget due to a work accident he had several years back.

As I said, when it's one bad lawyer, it might be the lawyer. Even two. But when someone finds three 'bad lawyers' in a short period of time, I'm suspicious.

Bottom line is simple. There's no way in the world for an attorney to properly represent a person who doesn't speak his language. If your friend wants to be properly represented, he needs to be able to communicate. If there are no Polish speaking attorneys in the area, then there has to be a translator. Heck, your friend spent $30 K already (seems odd on a fixed budget from someone who can't work, btw), then the cost of the translator would have been far, far less than that. Or maybe he's got a friend who speaks Polish and English.

It's unreasonable to expect an attorney to represent someone who can't communicate (for that matter, someone who wishes to live in this country for an extended time ought to learn the language, but that's a different issue).

Ohiogal · Nov 16, 2009

So how much has he actually PAID these attorneys? Not what they charged but what he paid? And quite frankly it is understandable why his bills may be large. If the attorneys charge $300 an hour and need to spend a lot of time trying to communicate with him that is bound to run up his bills. IF he states he wants something done and the attorney does it and he then decides that is not what he MEANT then he doesn't get that written off his bill. He still has to pay for the work whether it went anywhere or not.

LdiJ · Nov 16, 2009

Ohiogal said:
So how much has he actually PAID these attorneys? Not what they charged but what he paid? And quite frankly it is understandable why his bills may be large. If the attorneys charge $300 an hour and need to spend a lot of time trying to communicate with him that is bound to run up his bills. IF he states he wants something done and the attorney does it and he then decides that is not what he MEANT then he doesn't get that written off his bill. He still has to pay for the work whether it went anywhere or not.

The OP stated that he had spent 30k to date. That could be a lot, or it might not be based on what has actually gone on and what the disputes are.

etep513 · Nov 16, 2009

mistoffolees said:
As I said, when it's one bad lawyer, it might be the lawyer. Even two. But when someone finds three 'bad lawyers' in a short period of time, I'm suspicious.

Bottom line is simple. There's no way in the world for an attorney to properly represent a person who doesn't speak his language. If your friend wants to be properly represented, he needs to be able to communicate. If there are no Polish speaking attorneys in the area, then there has to be a translator. Heck, your friend spent $30 K already (seems odd on a fixed budget from someone who can't work, btw), then the cost of the translator would have been far, far less than that. Or maybe he's got a friend who speaks Polish and English.

It's unreasonable to expect an attorney to represent someone who can't communicate (for that matter, someone who wishes to live in this country for an extended time ought to learn the language, but that's a different issue).

First of all, you are making an incorrect assumption. You are ASSUMING that the situation is the result of a language problem. I already know that it is not. I spoke to this person in detail and based on what he told me, there is indeed fraudulent activity going on. Quite frankly, these lawyers are in on the fact that they have a vulnerable client and they know that they can have a hayday as far as things go. As I mentioned earlier, the first lawyer accepted an initial payment and ran off. How do you explain that? The other two took advantage of him by prolonging the case several months, giving him inaccurate information, and being deceptive with their billing practices. They did not represent him as you are trying to say. The $30k he spent was his life's savings. That's gone and he has no more to spend. He only gets social security disability checks since he can't work due to a disability.

In addition, you mentioned that it's unreasonable for an attorney to represent someone who can't speak english. The person I know did make an effort to learn english and he knows the language fairly well. It's just fine for day to day conversations. His english isn't that bad that he can't communicate with other people. He could communicate with his lawyers just fine. However, the legal jargon can be confusing, even to a person who made an effort to learn the language. However, his lawyers realized that he was an immigrant who did not know the ins and outs of the system (making him an easy target). This wouldn't be the first time that an immigrant was taken advantage of. America does have quite a history with that.

Ohiogal said:
So how much has he actually PAID these attorneys? Not what they charged but what he paid? And quite frankly it is understandable why his bills may be large. If the attorneys charge $300 an hour and need to spend a lot of time trying to communicate with him that is bound to run up his bills. IF he states he wants something done and the attorney does it and he then decides that is not what he MEANT then he doesn't get that written off his bill. He still has to pay for the work whether it went anywhere or not.

I already told you. He actually paid those attorneys about $30,000. I never said that he was so bad with english that he could not communicate. He knows english well enough to communicate with people on a daily basis. He also understands what his lawyers say, but it's no secret that the legal jargon can be overwhelming (even for many native-born americans). The attorneys did not charge $300 per hour. One was $200 and another was about $180. He did not spend an enormous amount of time trying to communicate with them. I already know that for a fact. The reason why the bills are so high is that they would often charge him for more hours than they actually did (like for office visits), they did not inform him about all of his options, and they literally wrote short bibles about what they were doing while doing very little in court. Your assumptions are wrong and I will tell you that now.

LdiJ said:
The OP stated that he had spent 30k to date. That could be a lot, or it might not be based on what has actually gone on and what the disputes are.

He had paid $30k, but some of the bills are disputed.

Proserpina · Nov 16, 2009

In addition, you mentioned that it's unreasonable for an attorney to represent someone who can't speak english.

This is actually what misty said:

It's unreasonable to expect an attorney to represent someone who can't communicate

There is a substantial difference between what you alleged here and what was actually said.

The person I know did make an effort to learn english and he knows the language fairly well. It's just fine for day to day conversations. His english isn't that bad that he can't communicate with other people. He could communicate with his lawyers just fine. However, the legal jargon can be confusing, even to a person who made an effort to learn the language. However, his lawyers realized that he was an immigrant who did not know the ins and outs of the system (making him an easy target). This wouldn't be the first time that an immigrant was taken advantage of. America does have quite a history with that.

This isn't the place for your personal agenda.

I already told you. He actually paid those attorneys about $30,000. I never said that he was so bad with english that he could not communicate. He knows english well enough to communicate with people on a daily basis. He also understands what his lawyers say, but it's no secret that the legal jargon can be overwhelming (even for many native-born americans). The attorneys did not charge $300 per hour. One was $200 and another was about $180. He did not spend an enormous amount of time trying to communicate with them. I already know that for a fact. The reason why the bills are so high is that they would often charge him for more hours than they actually did (like for office visits), they did not inform him about all of his options, and they literally wrote short bibles about what they were doing while doing very little in court. Your assumptions are wrong and I will tell you that now.

Out of interest were you there during every attorney/client meeting?

mistoffolees · Nov 17, 2009

etep513 said:
I already told you. He actually paid those attorneys about $30,000. I never said that he was so bad with english that he could not communicate. He knows english well enough to communicate with people on a daily basis. He also understands what his lawyers say, but it's no secret that the legal jargon can be overwhelming (even for many native-born americans). The attorneys did not charge $300 per hour. One was $200 and another was about $180. He did not spend an enormous amount of time trying to communicate with them. I already know that for a fact. The reason why the bills are so high is that they would often charge him for more hours than they actually did (like for office visits), they did not inform him about all of his options, and they literally wrote short bibles about what they were doing while doing very little in court. Your assumptions are wrong and I will tell you that now.

He had paid $30k, but some of the bills are disputed.

Have it your way. There are no honest attorneys out there.

The fact is that the attorney's rates are quite reasonable. You weren't there and neither was I, so I don't know what they did, but it is not impossible for charges to hit $30 K --- especially when the person keeps jumping from one attorney to another (causing much of the work to be duplicated). Every time he changes lawyers, his bill goes up. Add in the fact that with what YOU described as broken English, there will be miscommunication.

If a lawyer took advantage of him, he can file a complaint - first with the attorney's firm and then with the state Bar, if necessary. But it's clear from the facts you've given that it's going to be expensive and there's no way to know if the work the attorneys did was valid or not.

If you want to help your friend, get him someone to go with him when he goes to the attorney's office. Then, review the bills to see if there are fraudulent charges. ONLY IF you can demonstrate that the charges really are fake should you be going on about how terrible the attorney are and how they're ripping him off.

etep513 · Nov 17, 2009

Proserpina said:
There is a substantial difference between what you alleged here and what was actually said.

This isn't the place for your personal agenda.

Out of interest were you there during every attorney/client meeting?

I never claimed that he could not speak english at all. He speaks broken english, but he can communicate.

What personal agenda do I have? The fact is that immigrants are taken advantage of in various ways in this country. If a lawyer sees that someone doesn't know the system, it's no stretch of the imagination to say that he will take advantage of him to make some easy money.

I was present during a few of the meetings (as schedule permitted). He was able to tell his lawyers what he wanted done in court. The only problem is that they did not do it. During one meeting when I was there, he asked to have his divorce case separated from the settlement case. The lawyer said ok. Two weeks go by and the lawyer still hasn't done anything. Finally, the person I know goes down to the courthouse himself, gets the paperwork, fills it out and hands it to the lawyer. The lawyer finally starts working on that request. Talk about productivity.

mistoffolees said:
Have it your way. There are no honest attorneys out there.

The fact is that the attorney's rates are quite reasonable. You weren't there and neither was I, so I don't know what they did, but it is not impossible for charges to hit $30 K --- especially when the person keeps jumping from one attorney to another (causing much of the work to be duplicated). Every time he changes lawyers, his bill goes up. Add in the fact that with what YOU described as broken English, there will be miscommunication.

If a lawyer took advantage of him, he can file a complaint - first with the attorney's firm and then with the state Bar, if necessary. But it's clear from the facts you've given that it's going to be expensive and there's no way to know if the work the attorneys did was valid or not.

If you want to help your friend, get him someone to go with him when he goes to the attorney's office. Then, review the bills to see if there are fraudulent charges. ONLY IF you can demonstrate that the charges really are fake should you be going on about how terrible the attorney are and how they're ripping him off.

You're making your own assumptions, AGAIN! I actually was there on a few occasions. I witnessed the communication between him and the lawyer. He was able to state what he wanted clearly. There was no miscommunication on his behalf. Again, you are substituting reality with your own guesses. You seem set in stone that there was a misunderstanding between him and the lawyer. What kind of misunderstanding could lead to the first lawyer receiving a payment to start working on the case and then running off with the money??? I'll give you one example of what the most recent one did. The most recent one wanted the person I know to purchase a legal transcript from the court (which cost $300). When the person I know spoke to the court reporter, she said that each side was supposed to pay $150 for it and then both would get it. She went on to say that if he paid $300, both sides would get it (the other side for free). The lawyer did not bother to tell him that piece of info. The lawyer wanted him to pay for BOTH SIDES, even though he knew the financial situation that the person I know was in. A good lawyer would not be doing that. Instead, a good lawyer would ask the other side to put down $150 for the legal transcript as well. However, the actions of the lawyer show that he isn't concerned about his client. It even hints that he was cooperating with the other side covertly. Keep in mind, this is just one example of how those lawyers do business.

BTW, this isn't why I started this thread. I would like to get this thread back on topic (which is finding another lawyer). Are there any good legal review websites where former clients post reviews about their lawyer's performance?

Zigner · Nov 17, 2009

Did you miss that HUGE orange box that says "Find An Attorney In Your Area"? That's the only "referral" you will get on this forum...

etep513 said:
I never claimed that he could not speak english at all. He speaks broken english, but he can communicate.

What personal agenda do I have? The fact is that immigrants are taken advantage of in various ways in this country. If a lawyer sees that someone doesn't know the system, it's no stretch of the imagination to say that he will take advantage of him to make some easy money.

I was present during a few of the meetings (as schedule permitted). He was able to tell his lawyers what he wanted done in court. The only problem is that they did not do it. During one meeting when I was there, he asked to have his divorce case separated from the settlement case. The lawyer said ok. Two weeks go by and the lawyer still hasn't done anything. Finally, the person I know goes down to the courthouse himself, gets the paperwork, fills it out and hands it to the lawyer. The lawyer finally starts working on that request. Talk about productivity.

You're making your own assumptions, AGAIN! I actually was there on a few occasions. I witnessed the communication between him and the lawyer. He was able to state what he wanted clearly. There was no miscommunication on his behalf. Again, you are substituting reality with your own guesses. You seem set in stone that there was a misunderstanding between him and the lawyer. What kind of misunderstanding could lead to the first lawyer receiving a payment to start working on the case and then running off with the money??? I'll give you one example of what the most recent one did. The most recent one wanted the person I know to purchase a legal transcript from the court (which cost $300). When the person I know spoke to the court reporter, she said that each side was supposed to pay $150 for it and then both would get it. She went on to say that if he paid $300, both sides would get it (the other side for free). The lawyer did not bother to tell him that piece of info. The lawyer wanted him to pay for BOTH SIDES, even though he knew the financial situation that the person I know was in. A good lawyer would not be doing that. Instead, a good lawyer would ask the other side to put down $150 for the legal transcript as well. However, the actions of the lawyer show that he isn't concerned about his client. It even hints that he was cooperating with the other side covertly. Keep in mind, this is just one example of how those lawyers do business.

BTW, this isn't why I started this thread. I would like to get this thread back on topic (which is finding another lawyer). Are there any good legal review websites where former clients post reviews about their lawyer's performance?

mistoffolees · Nov 17, 2009

etep513 said:
You're making your own assumptions, AGAIN! I actually was there on a few occasions. I witnessed the communication between him and the lawyer. He was able to state what he wanted clearly. There was no miscommunication on his behalf. Again, you are substituting reality with your own guesses. You seem set in stone that there was a misunderstanding between him and the lawyer. What kind of misunderstanding could lead to the first lawyer receiving a payment to start working on the case and then running off with the money??? I'll give you one example of what the most recent one did. The most recent one wanted the person I know to purchase a legal transcript from the court (which cost $300). When the person I know spoke to the court reporter, she said that each side was supposed to pay $150 for it and then both would get it. She went on to say that if he paid $300, both sides would get it (the other side for free). The lawyer did not bother to tell him that piece of info. The lawyer wanted him to pay for BOTH SIDES, even though he knew the financial situation that the person I know was in. A good lawyer would not be doing that. Instead, a good lawyer would ask the other side to put down $150 for the legal transcript as well. However, the actions of the lawyer show that he isn't concerned about his client. It even hints that he was cooperating with the other side covertly. Keep in mind, this is just one example of how those lawyers do business.

You've already got your answer. If the lawyer defrauded him, file a claim against the lawyer. If the first attorney really took his money and ran, why hasn't he filed a complaint with the State Bar?

However, much of what you're suggesting isn't fraud. A case can get expensive - particularly when you have 3 different attorneys involved. Now you want a 4th. Don't count on it getting any less expensive.

But if you want a 4th attorney (or 5th or 6th), feel free to use the referral box on this page.

Proserpina · Nov 17, 2009

(I am an immigrant btw, OP - just fyi)

Broken English does not make for effective communication; since your friend is an immigrant there may be local services available to him (who may specialize in providing legal assistance to immigrants) that may not have been considered.

Ohiogal · Nov 18, 2009

LdiJ said:
The OP stated that he had spent 30k to date. That could be a lot, or it might not be based on what has actually gone on and what the disputes are.

Was that what he PAID or what he was billed that is outstanding? There is a difference. And yes that may NOT be a lot of money for the situation. ETA: I saw OP answered clarified this point.

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etep513

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mistoffolees

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etep513

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mistoffolees

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Ohiogal

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LdiJ

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etep513

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Proserpina

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mistoffolees

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etep513

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Zigner

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mistoffolees

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