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Condo Management Issues

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krl7044

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MA

We rent on the 3rd floor of a condo with no elevator. We store a stroller in the common area between floors (not obstructing anything, fire-retardant material on stroller). Condo management wants to assess a fine. Wife stays home, so it's a burden for her to drag the stroller up all the time.

Condo management is selectively enforcing rules. One owner smokes inside the common areas almost daily. I had to call police at least once about noise levels. Many other major rules violations were allowed to go on for months. All owners who live in the building like us (been there for 4+ years). The one absentee landlord who doesn't live in the building complained constantly about stroller (to the management, never complained to us personally)

Questions:
1) What recourse do we have? Management sent a warning letter once, then sent a letter with fee to owner. I know there is a grievance procedure of some sort, will it help us? I haven't even seen the condo rules about penalties, etc. All owners who live in the building don't mind us at all...I talked to condo ass'n head, and he's ok with us doing this.
2) Will threatening to sue the condo management help getting them off our back?
3) What should I ask my attorney to do? Write them a letter? Ultimate goal is to keep stroller in common area until until Spring.
 
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JETX

Senior Member
1) What recourse do we have? Management sent a warning letter once, then sent a letter with fee to owner. I know there is a grievance procedure of some sort, will it help us? I haven't even seen the condo rules about penalties, etc. All owners who live in the building don't mind us at all...I talked to condo ass'n head, and he's ok with us doing this.
If they have a valid reason... AND if it is violation of the condo rules, you have NO recourse. Simply, you can't just ignore the rules that you agreed to when you signed your lease.

2) Will threatening to sue the condo management help getting them off our back?
No one can answer that, but unlikely.

3) What should I ask my attorney to do? Write them a letter?
First, you should ask your attorney to READ the condo rules and determine if you are in violation. If not, then your attorney can ask them (in WRITING) to explain their actions.

Ultimate goal is to keep stroller in common area until until Spring./QUOTE]
Not relevant.
 

krl7044

Junior Member
Ok, fair enough. I do have to check whether the lease contained the condo rules, but I doubt it, so technically, I haven't agreed to the condo rules - the owner did. So far I've seen a paragraph out of the condo rules in the letter that contained a fine, again, to the owner, not to us.

I know that the rules do say no strollers, but then again, to me it seems that they are going after us because its easy. They are not doing this about other issues. They do not have a reason - that's for sure. The one I've gotten about 'fire hazard' is nonsense.

First letter said 'no such and such stroller in such and such a place'. Since then the stroller was moved to another, much less visible (and obstructive) place in the common area. A fine followed.

So, smoking in the building is ok, even though thats explicitly against rules? Why can't we threaten to sue because of that?
 

JETX

Senior Member
Ok, fair enough. I do have to check whether the lease contained the condo rules, but I doubt it, so technically, I haven't agreed to the condo rules - the owner did. So far I've seen a paragraph out of the condo rules in the letter that contained a fine, again, to the owner, not to us.
That will be between your landlord and you... and will very likely lead to your being charged for any 'fines' the landlord faces due to your actions. And of course, that will lead to eviction.

I know that the rules do say no strollers, but then again, to me it seems that they are going after us because its easy. They are not doing this about other issues. They do not have a reason - that's for sure. The one I've gotten about 'fire hazard' is nonsense.
They don't need a 'reason'. You have already admitted that you KNOW the rules say NO STROLLERS!!
Why do you think that you are above following the rules or that you are somehow exempt??

So, smoking in the building is ok, even though thats explicitly against rules?
Then file a complaint with the condo board. Pretty simple. These are two non-related issues.
Also, you have no idea what, if any, actions might be in the process against the smoker. He may be just like you and seems to think that the rules don't apply to him.

Why can't we threaten to sue because of that?
You can sue over anything you want. After all, anyone can sue almost anyone else claiming also anything. That doesn't mean that you would win (you won't).
I am curious though... what grounds do you feel you have for a valid lawsuit??
 

krl7044

Junior Member
On the grounds that second hand smoking is harmful to health. Complaints were ignored of course, and the smoker is the owner, and a former lawyer who thinks that he's above the rules, just like you said. And on the basis that the management is discriminating against families with children, because condo ass'n president himself knows this is happening.
 

JETX

Senior Member
On the grounds that second hand smoking is harmful to health. Complaints were ignored of course, and the smoker is the owner, and a former lawyer who thinks that he's above the rules, just like you said.
So, how EXACTLY is that relevant to YOUR thinking the condo 'rules' don't apply to you??

And on the basis that the management is discriminating against families with children, because condo ass'n president himself knows this is happening.
Get over yourself. Either grow up and follow the rules, and quit pointing at others and whining "but THEY don't have to!!!", or accept the consequences of your conduct.
 

krl7044

Junior Member
Would you also pay your speeding ticket if you knew you were speeding? This is what lawyers are for - to figure out creative ways to save/protect their clients by using any means to their disposal. Rules are great when they are uniformly enforced, but when under the guise of rules you have what amounts to discrimination, that's when lawyers get involved.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
Which is great and all, except that selective enforcement, as long as its not based on race, religion, sex, etc., is perfectly legal.
 

krl7044

Junior Member
Ok, getting closer. Why is it so hard to see this? So they'll get $50 from me, but is it worth paying $XXX to go to court for it? Basically, you don't bother me, I don't bother you. Frivolous? Maybe. Just as frivolous as their so-called enforcement. I've got plenty to tell to the judge that they stand no chance. Emotional? Maybe. Its as simple as day, and I'm not a lawyer. Write them a legal letter offering a compromise, otherwise threatening possible legal action. Let us be for a couple of months, don't bother us with fees, or possibly spend 10 times that defending in court. Calling their bluff. Are there any lawyers here? Hello?
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
The condo could not care less if they have to pay a lawyer. If there is a rule, and you do not follow it, they have every right to enforce it by any means they want to and are allowed to use, a lawyer being one big one. Why you need to be careful and read all your condo docs very carefully now, is that many (most?) condos write into their CC&Rs that all of the legal costs (attorneys' fees, court costs, disbursements, expenses) they incur as a result of prosecuting an owner for a breach of the rules is chargeable to you, the owner.

Or, in other words, you can end up paying the condo to sue you (and, for good measure, you get to pay the $50 on top of that, along with any late fees that may have accrued). It's usually a win-win for the condo.

In addition, depending on just how much of a PITA you are, the condo may also decide to use its additional powers - things like asking for an injunction (and making you pay for it), or levying massive daily fines.
 

krl7044

Junior Member
Ok, this is great. However, the suit I'll be threatening has nothing to do with the fee though. It will have to do with smoking inside the building, for example. So, separate from the fee issue.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Would you also pay your speeding ticket if you knew you were speeding?
If I didn't have a valid defense against the citation, yes.

This is what lawyers are for - to figure out creative ways to save/protect their clients by using any means to their disposal.
First, attorneys have LOTS of different roles, depending on their position on the matter. Since your example is a traffic violation, let's focus ONLY on those in the criminal process. Prosecuting attorneys are charged with representing 'society' against those persons who don't obey the laws. Defense attorneys are SUPPOSED to protect their clients rights from abuses in the law.
Second, you are NOT my client.... so I don't have to help you avoid the laws (or rules of the HOA).

Rules are great when they are uniformly enforced
But see, this is NOT a criminal matter, so there is no 'equity' requirement. The OWNER can make the rules and the owner can break the rules. It is HIS property and his rule. It doesn't have to be applied evenly, or even equally.... unless it is applied in violation of LEGALLY protected discrimination.
And the ONLY legally recognized discrimination is that set forth in state or federal laws. Your 'right' to place your stroller wherever you want is NOT a protected right.

but when under the guise of rules you have what amounts to discrimination, that's when lawyers get involved.
Fair is where you go to enjoy rides, corny dogs and cotton candy. Unfair is NOT illegal.

There are NO state or federal laws that say that you can put your stroller where you want in violation of your condo rules.... even if they allow a smoker to smoke where he wants.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Ok, this is great. However, the suit I'll be threatening has nothing to do with the fee though. It will have to do with smoking inside the building, for example. So, separate from the fee issue.
Your lawsuit will be tossed about 15 minutes after you file it...
Reason: You have NO standing on trying to enforce a 'no smoking' rule... and you have suffered 'NO damages'.
Grow up, quit being an ******* and learn to follow the rules.
 

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