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Deed correction for moved boundaries

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Bevsis3

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
We made three lots out of four to meet building requirements. The 4 lots were previously 50 feet wide each, and we changed them to 3 lots 65', 65' and 70' wide. The township approved the changes which were made on a survey we paid for. Noone in the township seems able to tell me how to renumber these lots, which were previously known as Lots 201, 202, 203 & 204. I was told I need to make new deeds and deed the newly formed lots back to ourselves, but can't complete that until I have descriptions. What is the usual process for renumbering lots which have been combined? Thanks for your help on this.
 


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nextwife

Senior Member
I presume your current lender also approved the modification of their collateral?

Was a new certified survey map recorded?

You needn't do ANYTHING until you sell or mortgage any of the properties! If you sell or mortgage, the parcel sold or mortgaged will be described as, for example "Lot 3 of CSM #Whatever, recorded on such and such date, as doc #whatever". Or something such as as Lot 1 and the west 20 feet of Lot 2. However it is that the title company determines it needs to be decribed. Right now you own the entire legal decription that you originally took title to.
 
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B

Bevsis3

Junior Member
thanks for your reply

We own the lots outright, so there is no lender involved.

My question arose because of tax assessment notices coming out in February and I don't want to continue to get assessed for 4 lots when we now have 3. The survey map has not been recorded yet, as I expected to do that when I recorded the new deeds I was told we needed for the 3 lots.

The question remains how is this normally handled when lots have been combined and need to be renumbered? I don't believe I can make out the deeds and record them without having this issue resolved, since all the lots in this plat are known by lot number. Thanks
 
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nextwife

Senior Member
Do you now own LESS LAND than before???? Did you sell off some land?

I'm confused. I thought you replatted it and still owned the same quantity of land as before.
 
F

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Bev the taxes might not change alot unless the city your in has a program worked out where they financially reward certain distressed areas when lot owners end up increasing lot sizes due to split up of another lot where the lot wasnt buildable or in higher crime areas where they treat the creation of larger lots as incentive for owners to stay, former large city I lived in did that in certian nieghborhoods , it prevented lots from being treated as mini junkyards or drug deal places. (one neighbor bought the lot to his north where house was torn down due to condemnation, before it was combined into his, its taxes were just over 100.00 a year, when combined into his lot with home it became a 30.00 increase) until county gets all the paperwork plan on no major change in property taxes on the 4 lots.
 
J

jimmler

Member
Bevsis3 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
We made three lots out of four to meet building requirements. The 4 lots were previously 50 feet wide each, and we changed them to 3 lots 65', 65' and 70' wide. The township approved the changes which were made on a survey we paid for. Noone in the township seems able to tell me how to renumber these lots, which were previously known as Lots 201, 202, 203 & 204. I was told I need to make new deeds and deed the newly formed lots back to ourselves, but can't complete that until I have descriptions. What is the usual process for renumbering lots which have been combined? Thanks for your help on this.
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You should ask your surveyor these questions.

It depends on local ordinances and laws as to how the lots should be re-numbered. Until they are recorded the tax assessors office will have nothing to change.
 
N

nextwife

Senior Member
jimmler said:
You should ask your surveyor these questions.

It depends on local ordinances and laws as to how the lots should be re-numbered. Until they are recorded the tax assessors office will have nothing to change.
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Jimmler, If the revised plat or new CSM has been recorded, the legal description DOES now change. The poster said the new plat had already been approved and signed off by the municipalty. The renumbering is normally handled on the revised plat, is it not? If they are like we, the municipality sends the new CSM/redivision plat out for recording after the last signature sign-off. And the recordation of the plat then creates the new legal dscription. So, if they sell an entire lot as shown on the new plat, the decsription is now, as example, Lot (or Parcel) 1 of CSM 1234, recorded in Pretty County, State of Confusion, on 1/15/10 as Document # 1234567. Isn't that correct?

Poster, you HAVE had the new division RECORDED, correct? How does the recorded plat refer to the parcels?
 
N

nextwife

Senior Member
justalayman said:
no they have not. They state they have not recorded them due to the belief they (OP) must number the lots.
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I've never heard of a proposed redivision or CSM completing it's way through the entire approval process without lot/parcel numbers already on the submitted plat/redivision. One can't even submit an incomplete plat for approval around here! Who prepared the plat that was submitted? Why was it incomplete? And, if incomplete, how could they get the approval signatures from the municipality?
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
I believe the problems stems from the fact it is an alteration to an existing plat. The original plat would have been designated by the developer and approved by the local authorities and recorded by the developer.

Here, we have an alteration to that existing plat. The developer is no longer involved and the government does not designate lots, only approves of the over all plat.

to me, a lot number would be irrelevant as the property is not being located by it's lot number on a plat map because they aren't lots on an established subdivision.. Each one is now something like; the easterly 65' of lot 202 of Bob's 1st subdivision of Bullrush county, mi. or the westerly 5' of lot 202 and the easterly 60' of lot 203 of Bob's 1st etc..

You are now, nor in the future transferring lots 201, 2,3,and 4 but the new lot as described in the new deed.


additionally, since MI tends to locate everything by tax ID anyway, once the county assessor issued new tax ID numbers, that would take whomever to the new description that would show the lot being made of of parts of other lots.

In fact, I would ask for a new tax ID number before recording and indicate the ID of the property as that of the tax ID, which is typical in MI.

a deed often is written as:

property known as <tax ID number> also known as <street address> and described as <either a metes and bounds description or lot number, or in this case, the seperate sections of whatever lots it contains>



if the gov wants them to have a number, tell them to put some numbers in a hat and draw out whatever they want on them. The number is truly irrelevant unless they designate them on the plat map. It is not your responsibility, nor right, to register anything more than the property you have control of. The subdivision is not yours and you are not registering a subdivision. You are recording your 3 pieces of land that were carved from the 4. You are not making a subdivision so you cannot designate lots within the subdivision.



the subdivision is not only drawn but in applications, it is designated in a manner that adding numbers would alter what the subdivision was established to be.

The more I look at this, the more I believe there is no true method to designate these new lots as a lot within Bob's 1st sub and should merely be recorded as I indicated above.


I have an idea; talk to the county assessor and the county register of deeds office. They might have some direction or input.
 
N

nextwife

Senior Member
justalayman said:
I believe the problems stems from the fact it is an alteration to an existing plat. The original plat would have been designated by the developer and approved by the local authorities and recorded by the developer.

Here, we have an alteration to that existing plat. The developer is no longer involved and the government does not designate lots, only approves of the over all plat.

to me, a lot number would be irrelevant as the property is not being located by it's lot number on a plat map because they aren't lots on an established subdivision.. Each one is now something like; the easterly 65' of lot 202 of Bob's 1st subdivision of Bullrush county, mi. or the westerly 5' of lot 202 and the easterly 60' of lot 203 of Bob's 1st etc..

You are now, nor in the future transferring lots 201, 2,3,and 4 but the new lot as described in the new deed.


additionally, since MI tends to locate everything by tax ID anyway, once the county assessor issued new tax ID numbers, that would take whomever to the new description that would show the lot being made of of parts of other lots.

In fact, I would ask for a new tax ID number before recording and indicate the ID of the property as that of the tax ID, which is typical in MI.

a deed often is written as:

property known as <tax ID number> also known as <street address> and described as <either a metes and bounds description or lot number, or in this case, the seperate sections of whatever lots it contains>



if the gov wants them to have a number, tell them to put some numbers in a hat and draw out whatever they want on them. The number is truly irrelevant unless they designate them on the plat map. It is not your responsibility, nor right, to register anything more than the property you have control of. The subdivision is not yours and you are not registering a subdivision. You are recording your 3 pieces of land that were carved from the 4. You are not making a subdivision so you cannot designate lots within the subdivision.



the subdivision is not only drawn but in applications, it is designated in a manner that adding numbers would alter what the subdivision was established to be.

The more I look at this, the more I believe there is no true method to designate these new lots as a lot within Bob's 1st sub and should merely be recorded as I indicated above.


I have an idea; talk to the county assessor and the county register of deeds office. They might have some direction or input.
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I've been involved with MANY private redivisions, and I've never heard of this problem. The surveyor who drafts the redivision shows the parcels with assigned numbers, and, once approved and recorded, the redivision legal description then applies. I usually see these done as Certified Survey Maps, when so few parcels are involed.

Once recorded, the lots would thenafter be known by the parcel/lot number and CSM number. I've never known it to be necessary to have a "developer" in order to get a simple CSM approved and recorded. The community assigns the tax ID and street address numbers, but the LEGAL description is created upon recordation. Maybe we're more "consumer friendly" in the way we handle real estate matters here in WI.
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
the fact of the matter is, there does not need to be a surveyor involved in what they are doing. They are merely drawing new lines across the total property they own and it is as simple as what I wrote above. Unless the owners want to have the borders of either the original lots or the new lots delineated, there is no need for a surveyor.

but the LEGAL description is created upon recordation.
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recoding of what? The legal description is whatever is written on the deed and that is the only pertinent legal description because that is what was transferred from the grantor to the grantee. Lot 1's description will alway be what the original developer/surveyor designated it to be. Lot 1's description cannot change. This new lot is not a lot as designated on the legal recordings of bob's sub #1 etc. It is merely a piece of land that includes parts of more than 1 lot of bob's sub #1.

in place of developer you can put surveyor if you want but a subdivision is platted by the owner of the sub whether that is a surveyor under the direction of the owner or the owner itself. My point was the government does not dictate how the lots are numbered. When a developer wants to make a sub, they draw the plat, give numbers to the lots on the plat and record it as required by law.



lot 1 will always be lot 1 even if it is split up and is now parts of 12 other newly formed lots. Lot 1's description must remain as it was originally recorded. Any changes to lot 1 would make it not lot 1 anymore.






the simple fact is OP is not creating new lots. They are merely transferring parts of two lots to one single owner (title). That is reflected in the description of the property transferred on the deed as I described in my last post.

, the redivision legal description then applies
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exactly. that legal description would be the XX easterly feet of lot (whatever already existing lot it is from e.g. lot 202 of bob's sub #1 of backwater country, MI as described in (and list the book and page in the country registers records it is recorded within)) and the westerly XX feet of lot (whatever existing lot it is from etc.)


I've been involved with MANY private redivisions, and I've never heard of this problem.
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actually, I don;t believe there is any problem here. OP is just concerned about assigning lot numbers to the newly created lots and I do not believe it is necessary or even actually possible.

what OP cannot do is use the old lot numbers to label the new lots as it would simply confuse the heck out of the tax assessor.
 
J

jimmler

Member
nextwife said:
I've been involved with MANY private redivisions, and I've never heard of this problem. The surveyor who drafts the redivision shows the parcels with assigned numbers, and, once approved and recorded, the redivision legal description then applies. I usually see these done as Certified Survey Maps, when so few parcels are involed.

Once recorded, the lots would thenafter be known by the parcel/lot number and CSM number. I've never known it to be necessary to have a "developer" in order to get a simple CSM approved and recorded. The community assigns the tax ID and street address numbers, but the LEGAL description is created upon recordation. Maybe we're more "consumer friendly" in the way we handle real estate matters here in WI.
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I agree, the lot numbers should be shown on the approved plan prepared by OP's surveyor. Every county or city I work in does the renumbering in different ways, some go with the next available consecutive number for the subdivision, some add a letter, Lot 7A, 8A, etc.
 
J

jimmler

Member
justalayman said:
the fact of the matter is, there does not need to be a surveyor involved in what they are doing. They are merely drawing new lines across the total property they own and it is as simple as what I wrote above. Unless the owners want to have the borders of either the original lots or the new lots delineated, there is no need for a surveyor.

recoding of what? The legal description is whatever is written on the deed and that is the only pertinent legal description because that is what was transferred from the grantor to the grantee. Lot 1's description will alway be what the original developer/surveyor designated it to be. Lot 1's description cannot change. This new lot is not a lot as designated on the legal recordings of bob's sub #1 etc. It is merely a piece of land that includes parts of more than 1 lot of bob's sub #1.

in place of developer you can put surveyor if you want but a subdivision is platted by the owner of the sub whether that is a surveyor under the direction of the owner or the owner itself. My point was the government does not dictate how the lots are numbered. When a developer wants to make a sub, they draw the plat, give numbers to the lots on the plat and record it as required by law.


lot 1 will always be lot 1 even if it is split up and is now parts of 12 other newly formed lots. Lot 1's description must remain as it was originally recorded. Any changes to lot 1 would make it not lot 1 anymore.

the simple fact is OP is not creating new lots. They are merely transferring parts of two lots to one single owner (title). That is reflected in the description of the property transferred on the deed as I described in my last post.

exactly. that legal description would be the XX easterly feet of lot (whatever already existing lot it is from e.g. lot 202 of bob's sub #1 of backwater country, MI as described in (and list the book and page in the country registers records it is recorded within)) and the westerly XX feet of lot (whatever existing lot it is from etc.)


actually, I don;t believe there is any problem here. OP is just concerned about assigning lot numbers to the newly created lots and I do not believe it is necessary or even actually possible.

what OP cannot do is use the old lot numbers to label the new lots as it would simply confuse the heck out of the tax assessor.
Click to expand...

OP stated in the original post that they had a survey that they paid for, that is why I said to ask the surveyor. Also, even though a surveyor may not be required, in order to ensure that everything is done legally and proper, it would be in the OP's best interest to have a surveyor involved (and a real estate attorney).

I have seen "do it yourself" resubs that create legal and title nightmares.

jimmler
I am not a lawyer, I have been in surveying since 1989.
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
jimmler said:
OP stated in the original post that they had a survey that they paid for, that is why I said to ask the surveyor. .
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I see that now.

the fact remains, especially since a surveyor prepared the description, there is no need to do anything other than deed the newly formed lots (in the generic sense, not a numbered lot) to themselves and record them. They are not creating new lots (as in the numbered lot) but are merely reassigning parts of each lot (of the numbered variety) to a new owner.

due to the confusion of the OP, an attorney may be a good idea.

one thing that has not been mentioned: is there an HOA involved? If so, they surely have to be involved in the reconfiguration. If there is an HOA, then I would definitely recommend a RE attorney be involved.
 
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