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waterman74

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

Hopefully this thread is in the right place.

My grandmother is 82, has 5 children and getting very senile. A few years ago 3 of the siblings went to her and had her put their names on the deed to her house and all of her property, the whole family knows that this was intended for the youngest son. They left his name and my grandmothers name on the deed as a life estate, and they are on the deed as remaindermen. My mother was completely cut out of the deed. My mother and her youngest brother would like to get the evil siblings off the deed and put it back into his and my grandmothers name. Can someone give a little advice our way or move this thread to the appropriate forum? Also, we do not think they have power of attorney yet, what is the best way to find out if they do without alerting them, and is power of attorney something my mother should try to get assuming the evil siblings don’t already have it.

Thanks in advance!
 


waterman74

Junior Member
She just starting to get forgetful at that point. She had not been documented at that time. When explained to her what she had done a couple of years later she had forget when she had signed and expressed that that was not what she had intended.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Even with alzheimers setting in, there are times where those afflicted can make rational decisions (some days are better than others). Unless you can tell that she was not capable of understanding, you're stuck with the fact that, ill-advised as it was, she gave away the property. People largely don't recognize that "putting someone on the deed" isn't like some membership in a club or letting them have a credit card on your account, you're irrevocably giving them a piece of the property.

You can't force the evil siblings off the deed. The only way is to get them to be less evil and give it back. It's theirs now to deal with.
 

waterman74

Junior Member
So, basically we would have to prove that she was incompetent at the time she signed, which would probably be hard to do since it was not documented at the time. What if my mom and grandmother went to the courthouse and my grandmother put my mother on the deed? Or would the other persons on the deed have to approve that also?

thanks again
 
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nextwife

Senior Member
So, basically we would have to prove that she was incompetent at the time she signed, which would probably be hard to do since it was not documented at the time. What if my mom had went to the courthouse and put my mother on the deed? Or would the other persons on the deed have approve that also?

thanks again
A person cannot go and grant themselves interest in someone ELSES property. Else why couldn't I go and just put myself on title to Bill Gates house?

The party or parties who own it must grant the ownership interest.

Grandma is still alive. Nobody should be slicing up her house right now.
 
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latigo

Senior Member
the whole family knows that this was intended for the youngest son.
Well the whole family does not agree that the property was intended for the youngest son. Especially the three siblings!

You have yet to state that grandma wasn’t and isn’t in agreement to the transfers over to the three siblings.

All you have told us is that your mother and your uncle want the deed transaction reversed. Nothing mentioned about what grandma wants!
__________________

The only significant thing you’ve mentioned so far is the difficult task of proving that three years ago grandma was mentally incapable of making responsible decision regarding the disposition of her own property. Which is an understatement.

Furthermore, no one is going to take any legal action against anyone until someone is appointed as grandma’s Conservator. Which may not be a successful undertaking.

And should a Conservator be appointed and attempt to rescind the deed to the siblings, he or she better get to hustling because Florida’s statute of limitations on fraud is four years.
____________________________

can my grandmother go down and add my mother to the deed?
What would be the purpose? For grandma to turn over her life estate to your mother? Because according to your post that is the only interest she has retained.
 

waterman74

Junior Member
Well, all I can say is I'm trying to help out my mother with a little advice, and only know as much as she knows. We don't believe that my grandmother was properly explained what she was signing or just didn't fully understand what she was signing. Recently my Grandmother has expressed that she wants the property in question to go to my youngest uncle which was the plan all along. The 3 siblings, who already got their inheritance btw, only did an end around to get to more property/money, they fully know what my grandmother's wishes are, but are just greedy, which is no surprise in today's world.

Can someone please explain the difference between life estate and remaindermen. thank you.
 

latigo

Senior Member
When you ask:
Can my grandmother go down and add my mother’s name to the deed?
Couldn’t that be seen as slightly inconsistent with your position that grandmother was not competent to do the same thing 3 years ago? (Or do grandma’s come equipped with “in-and-out-of-it” switches these days?)

And in four posts you still haven’t mentioned whether or not grandma is perfectly happy with what she did three years ago!

You aren’t happy, your mother isn’t happy, but how about her?

(And if you do come back claiming that grandma is protesting just as you, then explain how she can show such emotion if she is mentally incompetent. Like in “Catch-22” – if you think your insane you can’t be insane.)
 

waterman74

Junior Member
Until a testator dies, there is no inheritance.
Well, not in a legal sense, but one had a house given to them many years ago, one has another piece of property with her name along with my grandmothers on it. The other one who is the ring leader, so to speak, bought a piece of property owned by my grandmother and her two brothers, with my grandmothers 1/3 coming free with the promise that she would take care of my grandmother in her old age. Although nothing was or is in a will, this was understood by all siblings several years ago, as I understand it.

I'm beginning to see the value of a will!
 

waterman74

Junior Member
When you ask:


Couldn’t that be seen as slightly inconsistent with your position that grandmother was not competent to do the same thing 3 years ago? (Or do grandma’s come equipped with “in-and-out-of-it” switches these days?)

And in four posts you still haven’t mentioned whether or not grandma is perfectly happy with what she did three years ago!

You aren’t happy, your mother isn’t happy, but how about her?

(And if you do come back claiming that grandma is protesting just as you, then explain how she can show such emotion if she is mentally incompetent. Like in “Catch-22” – if you think your insane you can’t be insane.)
yeah, changing the deed at this point probably wouldn't work, i see your point.

No, she is not happy with the deed as it is.

Grandma is not a drooling vegetable. she doesn't drive, but still gets out in the yard and does yard work and such, knows who you are , unless you haven't seen her in a while, in which case you have to just remind her. In the past she has expressed her wishes for the deed to be like it was before with just her and my uncles name on the deed. When my mother told her that she had given up her right to do whatever she wanted with the land, she was upset, she was a very independent lady, she was running cows in her 70's.

I know you are trying to play devil's advocate or whatever, but let's, just for the sake of argument, say that she did want the deed changed. Is there anything that can be done?
 
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FlyingRon

Senior Member
Well, all I can say is I'm trying to help out my mother with a little advice, and only know as much as she knows. We don't believe that my grandmother was properly explained what she was signing or just didn't fully understand what she was signing.
Not understanding what you are doing is different from being incapable of understanding. I'm quite aware (and it happens continually by people) that they didn't realize she was giving her property away when they have their faculties. Being careless or naive isn't actionable.

We can't begin to understand what cracks there are here. Take grandma to a lawyer if you really want to help. He'll have to investigate things we can't as distant parties (and we are legally barred from really doing anyway).

However, nothing you have said here gives us much hope on the face.
 
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nextwife

Senior Member
Grandma may not like what the deed says now, but that does not make her incompetent at the time of conveyence. Merely changing one's mind doesn't make a deed invalid. Lots of people later regret having placed a girlfriend or a new spouse on a property they already owned, as an example.
 

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