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short till, asking me to come up with difference

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M

macbook

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona

Is it legal for my employer to make me come up with the shortage of cash? The till is 100 dollars short, there are video cameras all over and no proof of me stealing the money. What are my options? If I refuse to pay I may lose my job but it doesn't seem right, I wasn't the only person operating the register.
 


P

pattytx

Senior Member
Out of pocket or deducted from your paycheck?

Do you make minimum wage or close to it?

If you are fired for refusing to pay or authorize a deduction, your chances of receiving unemployment benefits are good if the employer cannot prove you stole the money.
 
V

vfielder

Junior Member
There was a case several years ago in Illinois where an employee was accused of stealing $5.00 out of the register and was fired with absolutely no proof. She took it to court and received $150,000.00 in damages. This was my neighbor.

If this is way your being terminated for stealing with absolutley no proof or witness, buy you a little voice activated tape recorder and get your proof to defend yourself...then talk to an attorney.

Not all end in nice settlements but keeping your name cleared criminal accusations is for future employment.
 
cbg

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
vfielder said:
If this is way your being terminated for stealing with absolutley no proof or witness, buy you a little voice activated tape recorder and get your proof to defend yourself...then talk to an attorney.
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State law differs on whether or not you can record a conversation without all the parties involved being aware of it and consenting to it, so before you follow the above advice PLEASE do check your state law on the matter. You don't want to be the one who is ultimately facing charges.
 
C

commentator

Senior Member
What is the company's policy on shortages? Did you sign anything when you were first employed agreeing to make up shortages to your register? If so, you may not even be able to get unemployment if terminated for failing to make up this shortage.

It would seem like this case where the person received a settlement that there had to be an element of libel or slander, that perhaps the former employer was telling other prospective employers that this person was fired for stealing with no proof of it. Because there certainly isn't any law that says they can't fire you, for just about anything, correct or incorrect.

Arizona appears to be a "one party taping" state, so it might be all right to tape conversations without the other party's consent, but I'm not sure it would be too helpful. A lot of convenience markets have a policy of asking the clerks to come up with all shortages and drive offs for fuel. It is legally appropriate if they have agreed to it as a term of their employment. This sounds awfully harsh in some cases, but the business owners maintain that it really helps a lot to cut down on fuel drive offs by the cashier's friends and family members, encourages diligence in cash register monitoring.
 
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P

pattytx

Senior Member
And I still need the answers to my questions, which will address the issue of requiring the shortage be paid back. There are some laws possibly involved.
 
M

macbook

Junior Member
pattytx said:
Out of pocket or deducted from your paycheck?

Do you make minimum wage or close to it?

If you are fired for refusing to pay or authorize a deduction, your chances of receiving unemployment benefits are good if the employer cannot prove you stole the money.
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Out of pocket, I never signed anything when hired about paying back shortages. Yes I make close to minimum wage (within 1.50) I'm a college student down here.
 
C

commentator

Senior Member
Do not quit. If they say you must pay the money back or be terminated, let them terminate you. That way the burden of proof they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate is on the employer (for unemployment purposes) and you say they do not have any proof it was you who took the money or made the error.

Before you are terminated, try to work this out with the employer. Why, if there were several people working out of your register, does the employer think you are the only one who should pay the money back? Has he asked everyone else involved to pay the money back as well? He may be trying to scare the guilty party into confessing and giving him the money back, though he could fire you anyway, even if you did give him the money back. Or he could fire you for suspicion of theft. Does he want to get rid of you? If not, just tell him you do not think you are liable and you do not want to pay the money back.

If you didn't take the money, and you haven't previously agreed to responsibility for shortages, I'd let them terminate me before I'd accept guilt or responsibility by paying them back. And as patti says, this may get into the legality of their taking money out of your paychecks, you can file a complaint with wage and hour if they try to do this.
 
xylene

xylene

Senior Member
Nobody here has also yet addressed this elephant in the room.

You could have repaid the demanded money and then they STILL fire you! :eek:

Terminated - for cause. IE no unemployment.
 
P

pattytx

Senior Member
xylene said:
Nobody here has also yet addressed this elephant in the room.

You could have repaid the demanded money and then they STILL fire you! :eek:

Terminated - for cause. IE no unemployment.
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What "cause"? Refusing to repay something he didn't take? That would notdisqualify him from benefits. "Stealing"? Can they prove it? Not unless they have him on tape, especially if others have access to the cash drawer. If they can't prove it, that's not going to normally disqualify him from benefits, either.
 
M

macbook

Junior Member
commentator said:
Do not quit. If they say you must pay the money back or be terminated, let them terminate you. That way the burden of proof they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate is on the employer (for unemployment purposes) and you say they do not have any proof it was you who took the money or made the error.

Before you are terminated, try to work this out with the employer. Why, if there were several people working out of your register, does the employer think you are the only one who should pay the money back? Has he asked everyone else involved to pay the money back as well? He may be trying to scare the guilty party into confessing and giving him the money back, though he could fire you anyway, even if you did give him the money back. Or he could fire you for suspicion of theft. Does he want to get rid of you? If not, just tell him you do not think you are liable and you do not want to pay the money back.

If you didn't take the money, and you haven't previously agreed to responsibility for shortages, I'd let them terminate me before I'd accept guilt or responsibility by paying them back. And as patti says, this may get into the legality of their taking money out of your paychecks, you can file a complaint with wage and hour if they try to do this.
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It was mine and one other persons till, I was shown the tape which shows us counting the money and there was no suspicious actions by either of us, the owner is telling us we both have to pay 50 to make up the 100. There is no proof on the tape but theyre still saying since it was our till we must pay for it.
 
P

pattytx

Senior Member
Well, they could fire both of you, but see the restrictions on my earlier post about what they can deduct from your paycheck or require that you pay out of pocket.
 
xylene

xylene

Senior Member
pattytx said:
What "cause"? Refusing to repay something he didn't take? That would not disqualify him from benefits. "Stealing"? Can they prove it? Not unless they have him on tape, especially if others have access to the cash drawer. If they can't prove it, that's not going to normally disqualify him from benefits, either.
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IF the poster chooses to repay the shortage -

The employer can still terminate him over this.

And they can still terminate for cause (aka deny unemployment) even if the money was repaid.

I never said the poster could not appeal or that the employer would not have to prove their assertion.

I was just advising the poster that paying voluntarily would not insulate him from getting fired, even for cause, over this incident.
 
M

mlane58

Senior Member
xylene said:
IF the poster chooses to repay the shortage -

The employer can still terminate him over this.
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We already know this

And they can still terminate for cause (aka deny unemployment) even if the money was repaid.
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Wrong! terminatingforcause does not equal denial of unemployment. Denial of benefits is by the state not the employer) and will be based on proven misconduct on the employee's part.
 
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