do i have a case?

Hello! I have a question that for some reason no one seems able to answer. I live in PA. When I turned 18 years old, I moved out of my parents' home. My grandparents had given me, I would estimate, a few thousand dollars worth of savings bonds throughout my childhood. The bonds are still in my parents' possession, and they have refused to return them to me. The way the bonds were issued were to me OR my father. Is there anything, legally, I can do to get them back? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. Please also send response to [email protected]. i seem to have a lot of trouble getting on this board.

goobeluv said:

Hello! I have a question that for some reason no one seems able to answer. I live in PA. When I turned 18 years old, I moved out of my parents' home. My grandparents had given me, I would estimate, a few thousand dollars worth of savings bonds throughout my childhood. The bonds are still in my parents' possession, and they have refused to return them to me. The way the bonds were issued were to me OR my father. Is there anything, legally, I can do to get them back? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. Please also send response to [email protected]. i seem to have a lot of trouble getting on this board.

Click to expand...

My response:

We're all having trouble with the Boards. I am informed that repairs to the server are being accomplished as we speak, and more bandwidth should be available by the end of this week.

Okay, your problem. First, unless the Bonds are in your name alone, they are not yours; e.g., "John Doe (father), as Trustee for Jimmy Doe" (you).

In your description, the Bonds belong to both you and your father while uncashed. Once cashed, the money belongs to whomever cashed them. That's because of the "or" on the payee line, and then you'd have to prove your Grandfather's "intent" that the money, or any part of it, should also belong to you; i.e., perhaps good old granddad wanted either of you to have the money - - it's possible.

If the payee line said "and", then you'd own half the money after cashing. If the payee line said "in trust for", then you'd own the money completely.

So, since your father has possession, and the only way to force him to turn the Bonds over to you would be a lawsuit for "Specific Performance" and an "Injunction", I'd say you have a snowball's chance in hell trying to get them.

Good luck to you, and try to be good to each other.

IAAL

sorry to bother you again...

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry. I just can't seem to let this go. My grandparents have refused to become involved in this matter, but if I took my father to court, my grandparents would have to show up if i named them as witnesses, wouldn't they? They are honorable people, so I don't think they would lie in court. The bonds were supposed to help me out with college, they had always said. Let me make sure I understood you correctly. If the bonds haven't been cashed, then they are half mine? Maybe I have more than a snowballs chance in hell? Maybe a snowman's chance?

Re: sorry to bother you again...

goobeluv said:

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry. I just can't seem to let this go. My grandparents have refused to become involved in this matter, but if I took my father to court, my grandparents would have to show up if i named them as witnesses, wouldn't they? They are honorable people, so I don't think they would lie in court. The bonds were supposed to help me out with college, they had always said. Let me make sure I understood you correctly. If the bonds haven't been cashed, then they are half mine? Maybe I have more than a snowballs chance in hell? Maybe a snowman's chance?

Click to expand...

My response:

It's unfortunate that your grandfather won't assist to clear this matter up voluntarily. Yes, you'd have to have granddad appear as a witness. Remember, you're asking him to testify against his own son. Kind of tricky.

Here's another set of problems for you:

1. Small Claims court cannot hear matters that include "Specific Performance" or "Injunction". The Small Claims court can only render money judgments. So, if you were to file in Small claims court for half, then Dad will merely go to the bank and cash the checks. Then the money is his.

2. Let's assume you are entitled to half. Since Bonds are negotiable instruments, your "entitlement" does not begin until they are, in fact, cashed. Therefore, any lawsuit you bring will be "premature" because there is no money due to you until they are negotiated. The Bonds can keep gaining interest for years, and years. As long as that is happening, there is no "waste".

Then, you say, "I'm still entitled to half of the physical Bonds, and my Dad should turn them over to me."

By what "right" are you relying upon to say that? Since the Bonds are in both of your names, your Dad has as much "right" to hold onto all of the physical Bonds as you do. Remember, they say "or". This is the old story of "possession is 9 / 10ths of the law".

You would need to file a lawsuit in a higher court, with jurisdiction to hear matters of "injunction" and "specific performance" (to keep your father from cashing the Bonds, and to turn them over to you, assuming Granddad corroborates your theory of recovery, which may or may not happen).

And, on top of all that, who's going to pay for the litigation ? Unless we're talking about tens of thousands of dollars of Bond value, the legal fees will surely eat a major chunk out of the overall value of the Bonds. And, to add insult to injury, it's obvious to me that "time is of the essence" to you. But, this litigation could last for 2 to 5 years !

Remember, you're asking a father to testify as to his intent, against, and to the detriment of, his own son. You would think that your father would be proud to have you attend college, and would gladly cash in the Bonds as your tuition comes due. One would think. But, there's obviously some other issue involved that you're not saying.

This whole matter leaves Grandpa in a very precarious position, indeed !

Good luck to you.

IAAL

[Edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE on 04-10-2001 at 05:23 PM]