Unsafe speeding with no proof

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

I was pulled over coming over the Walt Whitman bridge into NJ. When asked why I was being pulled over I only stated I had a feeling he was going to because he was following me. My radar detector had not gone off and he checked to see if I had one. The officer issues me a ticket for Unsafe speeding (section 3361) because he said and has on the ticket "Could not determine speed. Approx. 65 in a 45 mph."

My issue is how can the officer determine I was speeding with clear conditions (which is written on the ticket), traffic is minimal, and no proof other than approximated speed? The officer was originally exiting the highway when I passed him. Its only a $119 ticket but 2 points are involved. Is there a way to fight this??What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Estimating speed is part of their training.
Your radar detector not sounding an alarm is not exculpatory.
His estimation will be more than enough to convict absent anything compelling on your part.

Here is that he wrote you up for

§ 3361. Driving vehicle at safe speed.
No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, nor at a speed greater than will permit the driver to bring his vehicle to a stop within the assured clear distance ahead. Consistent with the foregoing, every person shall drive at a safe and appropriate speed when approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway and when special hazards exist with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.

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First in PA visual estimated are not allow, they must verify your speed with an approve device. Writing the estimated speed on the ticket is his justification for the above. The problem with this ticket it is subjective at best, what is reason and prudent depends on the person. The law above is more about not the actual speed limit of the road but conditions that exist in the road that may cause a reasonable person to slow down to negotiation the condition in the road. He most likely wrote this since he could not write a speeding ticket since visual estimates are not allowed in PA.

I have driven the Walt Whitman Bridge many, many times. You were likely cited by DRPA - Delaware River Port Authority - patrol. It is so easy on the downhill side of their bridges to let your car speed up and that sounds like what you did. But twenty over passing a cop (sounds like was an unmarked car) is going to be tough to explain or for them to excuse!

Unfortunately, this sounds like an expensive lesson especially on the DRPA bridges. Good luck whatever you do.

Maestro64 said:

The problem with this ticket it is subjective at best, what is reason and prudent depends on the person. The law above is more about not the actual speed limit of the road but conditions that exist in the road that may cause a reasonable person to slow down to negotiation the condition in the road

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But is not exceeding the posted limit prima facie evidence that one is driving too fast for conditions?

If exceeding the speed limit can be proven.

loulblades said:

If exceeding the speed limit can be proven.

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Ok, so let's say officer was driving behind the OP at 65...OP was variously moving slowly ahead slowly dropping back...still exceeding the speed limit. Proof? Testimony.

Zigner said:

Ok, so let's say officer was driving behind the OP at 65...OP was variously moving slowly ahead slowly dropping back...still exceeding the speed limit. Proof? Testimony.

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Well then in PA he would have paced him and therefore could have given him a ticket for speeding since pacing is allow with a car with properly calibrated speedometer, but his visually estimated of speed is not admissible in court.

I am pretty confident the officer would have written a speeding ticket if he could, but gave the op the next best thing since he could not back up the speed with admissible evidence. He could have written a failure to obey a traffic control device, but that is no points and 3361 is two points and hard to defend against.

OP, what I have taken from this discussion is that it would be best if you were represented by an aggressive traffic attorney. A local attorney knows best what the courts want to hear, and as such present the highest potential for yielding the most favorable results. Many attorneys will offer free/cheap consultations, so you should take advantage of this and sit down with a couple to see what insight they may have to offer.

Thanks for the input everyone.

The officer told me he COULD have written me a speeding ticket if he had the proof to do so. He only had an approximation. Therefore pacing or any other method was not used. Although the officer was in an exit lane slowing down, I find it hard to believe he had an idea of my speed. If its because other people around me saw him and slowed down, then I deserve the ticket cause I didnt see him first.

For a three day period I had training sessions for work near the aiport and the expenses for mileage and toll came to $126 which is the EXACT amount the ticket plus $7 court fee to plead not guilty. So why go the distance over a ticket that virtually paid for itself in the end? Therefore at this point, my main objective is to just go in, explain to the prosecutor this is my first violation, and to just take the points off.

Op, in PA there is no Prosecutor, it will be you the officer and the judge, and most judges will not let you off just because you have clean record. The most you can hope for it a complete dismissal if can rip apart the officer testimony and he can not justify an unsafe speed, do to conditions that exist at the time and his guess at speed it admissible since it most likely based on what other cars were doing at the time. Or the office offers to reduce it to a 3111 ticket which is a no point ticket.