Guilty???

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? FLORIDA

I went to court yesterday for a speeding ticket, before court I sent a Request for Discovery to the prosecutor, in this case the police department. Their response was that they were unable to provide me the information that I requested, in other words, there's not prove that I was driving over the speed limit.
At the court I presented the letter that the Police Department sent me, and a motion for dismissal for the charges, the judge took the documents and asked me to call the court in 2 hours to get the veredict.

Guess what, he found me GUILTY. A $331 fine plus a ADI course that cost around $100. I can't afford it. What can I do in this case?

The ticket states that I was driving at 51mph in a 35mph zone, I requested the Discovery asking for the calibration of the radar, certifications of the officer, copies of the officer report and logs, etc. He didn't have any of this documents.
This was in Center Hill, FL a small town 1.5 miles long. The judge before trial offered to everybody to pay a higher fee to waive the points or the traffic school. It is obvious that the town is after the money.
Any advice?

Nicja said:

Guess what, he found me GUILTY. A $331 fine plus a ADI course that cost around $100. I can't afford it. What can I do in this case?

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Put it on a credit card and pay it over time.

The prosecutor is not the police department, it's the state (usually represented by the DA's office). The police officer is merely a witness on behalf of the state, but he is not the one pressing charges.

If you wish to appeal, my guess is you will not have much success without the representation of an experienced attorney, so it's probably time you start calling some.

The Occultist said:

The prosecutor is not the police department, it's the state (usually represented by the DA's office). The police officer is merely a witness on behalf of the state, but he is not the one pressing charges.

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Generally speaking you would think that is the case; however, depending on state law or how the state operates (such as CA), the officers essentially act as prosecutors (with the help of the judge) and here you get discovery through the agency, not the DA... and here you would likely get the same ruling; although I doubt my judge would have taken it under submission, he just would have ruled right there.

For example, our DA only gets involved if the defendant hires an attorney and they do not provide discovery to pro per defendants or talk with them or negotiate with them.

In this case is the Police Officer the prosecutor, when I contacted the court office and asked them, they told me that.
The letter that the PD sent me states that they were unable to provide the information, plus that I needed to contact the State Attorney Office and requested to them, which I did. But the SAO response was that they don't handle traffic infractions and that the PD was responsible for this.
I contacted a couple of lawyers and the charges are ridiculous...guess that I need to decide to whom give away my money??

Should I appeal myself?? What forms do I need? Is there any way to move this to a different county court?

Thanks

Nicja said:

I contacted a couple of lawyers and the charges are ridiculous...guess that I need to decide to whom give away my money??

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Looks like you need to figure out which is more expensive in the long run. Attorney fees might seems ridiculous for only a $400 ticket, but losing this and getting points on your license will likely mean an increase in your insurance premium, making it more than just a $400 ticket.

call the clerk and see if a de novo hearing is possible

You may only have FIVE days to do this, so go to the courthouse if you cannot reach them on the phone.

Then you get a new trial ... and you should have the documents in your case file at the courthouse available.

Hey guys thanks for the replies. Davidmacbeth3, is there any specific form that I need to use? I went online and couldn't find anything specific for FL, all the templates I found were for CA. Any help is appreciated.

You are incorrect, the officer CAN NOT be the prosecutor in Florida. There may not have been a prosecutor present, but the officer is just a witness. The Florida traffic court rules pretty much indicate the only thing required is the type, model, and serial number unless the officer has additional items in his possession. It's not clear that there was anything to discover here.

If you want to appeal, you file the "Notice of Appeal" which you can get from the court clerks and you file it with the fee ($281 at least in the county I looked in). MacBeth is wrong as usual, you have 30 days to file the notice.

However, unless you have something you haven't shown us here, your new trial isn't going to be any more fruitful. I'd recommend a lawyer if you really want to proceed. You won't get a chance for another appeal.

Thanks Ron, I contacted the court and asked for info about the "Trial de Novo" and if it was possible; they didn't have any idea or clue I was talking about. What they told me was that I can file a "motion for a new hearing" or "motion for a new trial".
Is this the same as the "Notice of appeal"? Or it is a "Trial de novo"? Is there any fee for this?

On the other side, I did contact the court asking for the prosecutor and they told me that was the police officer, maybe I was misleaded by the clerk. Looks like the only thing they know well is how to collect money.
I'm attaching the motion for dismissal that I filed at the hearing, based on the letter that I received from the PD.


"I, the defendant, hereby request a dismissal of my case, on grounds of lack of discovery.

Pursuant to Rule 6.445 Discovery: I’m entitled to review all the documents regarding the electronic or mechanical speed measuring device used by the citing officer.
When operating a speed measuring device, the police officer is required to follow specific rules and procedures. In order to introduce evidence of excessive speed obtained by a speed measuring device, the officer must prove, through competent evidence, that he followed these specific rules and procedures.
However, I received from the Police Department a letter that states that I was not entitled to discovery of the officer's reports as to the use and testing of this device (or any of the maintenance records, etc.) pertaining to the device. However, upon closer reading of the statutes of Florida, I believe that I am entitled to these materials in order to prepare my defense.
Upon further legal research, however, I have learned that I am entitled to these items. (1: A copy of the certification of the radar unit used by the officer. 2: A copy of the officer's report from the citation. 3: All records of when the radar unit was last calibrated. 4: Documentation that the radar unit was tested both before and after the issuance of the citation, including an internal circuit test done by the unit itself as well as a test with tuning forks. 5: Proof that the officer is certified to operate the radar system. 6: History of maintenance and repair of the radar unit itself. 7: A copy of the operator's manual for the radar unit in question. 8: Any and all information as to the certification and/or licensure of the individuals and equipment used to calibrate and/or certify the radar unit.)
Under the State of Florida Law, I am entitled to pretrial access to the officer's notes showing that, among other things, he properly or improperly calibrated the radar. Without such evidence before trial, I am unable cast doubt on the validity of the alleged radar reading. My right to "due process of law" is thus denied because I am denied the necessary information to properly defend myself and refute a necessary element of the alleged offense of speeding.

Since my motion for discovery as to these items was denied, my rights to discovery and due process were violated. Therefore, I hereby move for dismissal of the case.


Thank you in advance for your courtesy. Very truly yours,"

my ans

There may not be any standard format or form ... just a simple motion.

Your motion to dismiss does not list your attempts to resolve the discovery request with the state. A court will not give you your motion to dismiss any consideration unless you have tried to resolve this with the other party. Even then, you did not file a motion to compel before the dismissal motion so most courts will not grant your motion until that is done first (where the court gives the other party a "drop dead date"). A dismissal on discovery ground is a last resort to solving discovery issues, not the first.

What you should have done was: a) call the prosecutor's office and speak to them about documents - and ask them "do you or do you not have documents"; you could call the police too and ask the same "do you have any documents to provide me?" When they answer no; then at trial, you OBJECT to the introduction of any of the documents that you asked for but did not get. After all, they have no documents so why would you file a motion to compel, right?

The police are not really able to obtain discovery requests from you; you can file FOIA requests to them, but not requests for documents, etc. That is to be served upon the DAs office (regardless of what they say).

A notice of appeal is what you must file in the court to announce that you are filing an appeal - it is a requirement for filing an appellate case. (I dont see you winning an appeal based on your motion).

A motion for a new trial is a motion for a de novo trial.

And if this discovery motion was your only defense, only a new trial will help you. I was not there so thats about all I can assist you with on this one.

You must serve the motion for a new trial with the DA's office & with the clerk for filing.

my ans

There may not be any standard format or form ... just a simple motion.

Your motion to dismiss does not list your attempts to resolve the discovery request with the state. A court will not give you your motion to dismiss any consideration unless you have tried to resolve this with the other party. Even then, you did not file a motion to compel before the dismissal motion so most courts will not grant your motion until that is done first (where the court gives the other party a "drop dead date"). A dismissal on discovery ground is a last resort to solving discovery issues, not the first.

What you should have done was: a) call the prosecutor's office and speak to them about documents - and ask them "do you or do you not have documents"; you could call the police too and ask the same "do you have any documents to provide me?" When they answer no; then at trial, you OBJECT to the introduction of any of the documents that you asked for but did not get. After all, they have no documents so why would you file a motion to compel, right?

The police are not really able to obtain discovery requests from you; you can file FOIA requests to them, but not requests for documents, etc. That is to be served upon the DAs office (regardless of what they say).

A notice of appeal is what you must file in the court to announce that you are filing an appeal - it is a requirement for filing an appellate case. (I dont see you winning an appeal based on your motion).

A motion for a new trial is a motion for a de novo trial.

And if this discovery motion was your only defense, only a new trial will help you. I was not there so thats about all I can assist you with on this one.

You must serve the motion for a new trial with the DA's office & with the clerk for filing.

Nicja,

If you know what's good for you, ignore posts from davidmcbeth3 - he has demonstrated time and time again that he has no knowledge of what he speaks about.

flying ron is talking about appellate court ...

FlyingRon said:

You are incorrect, the officer CAN NOT be the prosecutor in Florida. There may not have been a prosecutor present, but the officer is just a witness. The Florida traffic court rules pretty much indicate the only thing required is the type, model, and serial number unless the officer has additional items in his possession. It's not clear that there was anything to discover here.

If you want to appeal, you file the "Notice of Appeal" which you can get from the court clerks and you file it with the fee ($281 at least in the county I looked in). MacBeth is wrong as usual, you have 30 days to file the notice.

However, unless you have something you haven't shown us here, your new trial isn't going to be any more fruitful. I'd recommend a lawyer if you really want to proceed. You won't get a chance for another appeal.

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Im talking about getting a new trial within the same court - there are alot of jerks on this board who cannot read english -- you can file a discovery request see :
FAQ for Traffic Tickets and Traffic Courts

FlyingRon has already pointed out you mistakes in THIS thread. And that doesn't take into account your errors in most of the other threads you post in.

What does who runs/owns this board have to do with anything? I suppose motorists' will run out and hire them - but gee how do they know who they are?