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possesion charge

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sk8erpunk121991

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia

Ok, so i got pulled over for my light being out. He took my license and registration, and before i knew it another cop came up to my door and asked me to get out. This cop had a search dog. I do not recall them asking me if they could search my car, and there really was no reason to. They found about 5 dollars worth of weed that i had from a trip to new york and completely forgot it was there. i had not touched it that day. I have court in a couple weeks now and im representing myself. Im also 18 years old, and this is really the first time ive been in trouble like this. I didnt tell my parents about it because they would worry too much and my mother has a health condition, which wouldnt help.So what do i tell the judge, im new at this and hoping to stay like that after this court date.
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
If the dog detected drugs, they didn't need your permission to search. You're well advised to have a lawyer. You're looking at a permanent criminal record, even though the fine will likely be only $500, you could get 30 days in jail. Some courts would allow a deferred sentence, but it's harder to get that acting as your own counsel.
 

sk8erpunk121991

Junior Member
If the dog detected drugs, they didn't need your permission to search. You're well advised to have a lawyer. You're looking at a permanent criminal record, even though the fine will likely be only $500, you could get 30 days in jail. Some courts would allow a deferred sentence, but it's harder to get that acting as your own counsel.

guy, think realistically. Nobody is going to make me sit in jail for 30 days because they found 5 dollors worth of weed....come on now haha. i doubt they will make me pay much either...its so minor they will most likely give me classes and maybe a small fine. i was also told that probation is a possibility. this is my first offence too...
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Well, dude, since you know all the answers, go to court and cop that attitude with the judge that you only had a small amount of drugs and he should let you off with a slap. I'm just referring to the range of sentences for specifically the first offense. OF course if you weren't stoned you could have found the same info on the NORML website. Frankly, there's no incentive for the judge not to hit you with the full $500 fine, I do agree that jail is not likely, but I never recommend messing with charges that could land me in jail without a lawyer.

As I said, you could get off with a deferred sentence what they often call a stet in Maryland courts (essentially keep your nose clean and it's like it never happened), but you probably want to make sure (use a lawyer) to pitch that. You'll still pay a lot of "costs" I suspect.

Senior Judge will be along with his handy dandy instructions for how to conduct yourself in court.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
its my understanding that:

the state has no standing in this matter

no injured or damaged party

defective service of summons

some police lie when on duty and are not credible witnesses

check out this great website below for more info to really help you

marcstevens.net
Dillon, please. If your tin hat is slipping, get out the Reynolds Wrap and make another.

To the OP, what, exactly, were you charged with? The statute number?

Realize that this is not a laughing matter... a drug felony can bar you from any student loans.
 

Dillon

Senior Member
Dillon, please. If your tin hat is slipping, get out the Reynolds Wrap and make another.

To the OP, what, exactly, were you charged with? The statute number?

Realize that this is not a laughing matter... a drug felony can bar you from any student loans.
But basic concepts of our criminal jurispridence cannot be treated lightly in a zealous, and albeit a commendable, desire to reduce crime and convict culpits. Among these safeguards is the requirement that the State must establish the existence of the corpus delecti and prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt by admissible evidence." Pepoon v. Commonwealth, 66 S.E.2d 854, 859.

"Point of standing is to ensure that person who asserts a position has substantial legal right to do so and that his rights will be affected by disposition of the case." Cupp v. Board of Supr's of Fairfax County, 318 S.E.2d 407.

"The purpose of requiring standing is to make certain that a party who asserts a particular position has the legal right to do so and that his rights will be affected by the disposition of the case." Goldman v. Landslide, 552 S.E.2d 67, 71 (Va. 2001).

In Virginia no injured or damaged party MEANS no corpus delicti MEANS nobodies legal rights were violeted MEAN no standing to be in court

sorry if you dont like this educational information written in part by m.stevens
 
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Dillon

Senior Member
To the OP, what, exactly, were you charged with? The statute number?

it doesnt matter, no crime was commited in the matter, Correct?
cyjeff your tin hat is slipping, get out the Reynolds Wrap and make another.

Realize that this makes you look like you dont understand the law
 
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Dillon

Senior Member
If the dog detected drugs,
sounds like a dog and pony show for no crime being committed

again its my understanding if no corpus delicti, no injury or damage or no ones legal rights were violated means no standing in court.
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
Dillon,

Last chance.

Stop unless you actually have something to contribute. Posting this crap will not keep the OP out of jail.

So, unless you have a perverted wish to have this person find out the joys of sex with a cellmate, we should keep our discussion germane to the areas that we can help.

Insisting that it isn't a crime to do what the OP has been arrested for is not a valid defense to the charge.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
cyjeff your tin hat is slipping, get out the Reynolds Wrap and make another.

Realize that this makes you look like you dont understand the law
Do you have any idea how many people were convicted of this "non crime" in the last year alone?

Do you have any idea how many people are currently incarcerated, on probation or on parole for this crime right now?

Therefore, saying it isn't a crime isn't very accurate, is it?

Demanding that everyone see something your way doesn't mean we will... it may just mean that you are wrong... or in need of that medication the court insisted you remember to take regularly.

I tell you what. Have you ever tried and succeeded in this defense of this or a similar charge? Can you quote me a single case where this defense worked in the trial of a similar suspect?

When you can, we will consider your points to have meaning. In the meantime, insisting that you have found some great but unrealized legal nugget that, somehow, the ACLU, NORML and every defense attorney missed doesn't make it a fact.
 

Dillon

Senior Member
Dillon,

Last chance.

Stop unless you actually have something to contribute. Posting this crap will not keep the OP out of jail.

Insisting that it isn't a crime to do what the OP has been arrested for is not a valid defense to the charge. You believe that if it brings you comfort
with all due respect u are the one posting the crap.

if you cant prove me wrong then you agree with me.

if the OP does his homework on standing in court he will be fine.

if these courts really administered justice, he would be fine, Right?

any lawyer worth his salt could argue standing, You think?

i means there must be hundreds, if not thousands of cases on Record on standing in court
 
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Dillon

Senior Member
Do you have any idea how many people were convicted of this "non crime" in the last year alone?

its an adversarial legal system, if you dont know your rights, sorry

Do you have any idea how many people are currently incarcerated, on probation or on parole for this crime right now?

sounds like injustice to me.

Therefore, saying it isn't a crime isn't very accurate, is it?

do your homework on standing in court, start at marcstevens.net to learn more

Demanding that everyone see something your way doesn't mean we will... it may just mean that you are wrong...

I am not demanding anything, do what you want

When you can, we will consider your points to have meaning.
so, you are saying your mind is made up dont confuse you with the facts, Correct?

its my understanding that what i said is true, accurate and correct, concerning standing in court

if true, Could this change anything that happens in the legal system, ???

Do you hate me when i tell you the truth?
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
so, you are saying your mind is made up dont confuse you with the facts, Correct?
Got that case law yet on this being an accurate defense to a charge of possession?

I can quote the SCOTUS finding on drug dog use, if you wish.

Until you can do more than stomp your foot as to what you think the legal system should be instead of what it is, go away.
 

Dillon

Senior Member
Got that case law yet on this being an accurate defense to a charge of possession?

I can quote the SCOTUS finding on drug dog use, if you wish.

Until you can do more than stomp your foot as to what you think the legal system should be instead of what it is, go away.
written by m.stevens for every state:

California:

In every prosecution for crime it is necessary to establish the “corpus delecti”, i.e., the body or elements of the crime.” People v. Lopez, 62 Ca.Rptr. 47, 254 C.A.2d 185. (even possession)

"In every criminal trial, the prosecution must prove the corpus delecti, or the body of the crime itself-i.e., the fact of injury, loss or harm, and the existence of a criminal agency as its cause." People v. Sapp, 73 P.3d 433, 467 (Cal. 2003) [quoting People v. Alvarez, (2002) 27 Cal.4th 1161, 1168-1169, 119 Cal.Rptr.2d 903, 46 P.3d 372.].

“Elements of “corpus delecti,” injury or loss or harm and a criminal agency which causes such injury, loss or harm, need only be proven by a “reasonable probability,” i.e., by slight or prima facie proof…” People v. Ramirez, 153 Cal.Rptr. 789, 791, 91 C.A. 132.

““Corpus delecti” of crime consists of fact of injury, loss, or harm, and existence of criminal agency as cause.” People v. Daly, 10 Cal.Rptr.2d 21, 28, 8 CA4th 47.

“Generally, “corpus delecti” of crime is (1) the fact of the loss or harm, and (2) the existence of a criminal agency as its cause.” People v. Dorsey, 118 Cal.Rptr. 362, 43 CA3d 953.


"There is no requirement of independent evidence 'of every physical act constituting an element of an offense,' so long as there is some slight or prima facie showing of injury, loss, or harm by a criminal agency." In re I.M., 23 Cal.Rptr.3d 375, 381 (2005).

"The corpus delecti of a crime consists of two elements[:] the fact of the injury or loss or harm, and the existence of a criminal agency as its cause." People v. Jones, 949 P.2d 890, 902, 70 Cal.Rptr.2d 793, 17 Cal.4th 279.

“The corpus delecti rule requires that the corpus delecti or the body or substance of the crime charged be proved independent from the accused’s extrajudicial confession or admissions. The corpus delecti of a crime consists of two elements: (1) the fact of the injury or loss or harm, and (2) the existence of a criminal agency as its cause. [citing] People v Jennings, 53 Cal 3d 334, 279 Cal Rptr 780, 807 P2d 1009, 92 CDOS 2576, 91 Daily Journal DAR 4222, reh den. cert den (US) 116 L Ed 2d 464, 112 S Ct 443…People v Pensinger, 52 Cal 3d 1210, 278 Cal Rptr 640, 805 P2d 899, 91 CDOS 1514, 91 Daily Journal DAR 2504, mod 53 Cal 3d 729a, 91 Daily Journal DAR 4745 and stay gr (Cal) 1991 Cal LEXIS 3318 and reh den. cert den (US) 116 L Ed 2d 290, 112 S Ct 351, 91 Daily Journal DAR 12909, reh den (US) 116 L Ed 2d 821, 112 S Ct 923; State v Pullos, 76 Idaho 369, 283 P2d 590; People v Friedland (1st Dist) 202 Ill App 3d 1094, 148 Ill Dec 415, 560 NE2d 1012; Brown v State, 239 Ind 184, 154 NE2d 720, cert den 361 US 936, 4 L Ed 2d 360, 80 S Ct 375; Joseph v State, 236 Ind 529, 141 NE2d 109, 69 ALR2d 824, cert dism 359 US 117, 3 L Ed 2d 673, 79 S Ct 720; People v Aiken, 66 Mich 460, 33 NW 821; People v Gould, 156 Mich App 413, 402 NW2d 27; State v Simler, 350 Mo 646, 167 SW2d 376; State v Hill, 47 NJ 490, 221 A2d 725; State v Robinson (App. Scioto Co) 83 Ohio L Abs 259, 168 NE2d 328; State v Brown, 103 SC 437, 88 SE 21…there must be sufficient proof of both elements of the corpus delecti beyond a reasonable doubt.” 29A American Jurisprudence Second Ed., Evidence § 1476.

Without standing, there is no actual or justiciable controversy, and courts will not entertain such cases. (3 Witlen, Cal. Procedure (3rd ed. 1985) Actions § 44, pp 70-72.) “Typically, … the standing inquiry requires careful judicial examination of a complaint’s allegations to ascertain whether the particular plaintiff is entitled to an adjudication of the particular claims asserted.” (Allen v. Wright, (1984) 468 U.S. 737, 752…Whether one has standing in a particular case generally revolved around the question whether that person has rights that may suffer some injury, actual or threatened.” Clifford S. v. Superior Court, 45 Cal.Rptr.2d 333, 335.



"As a general principal, standing to invoke the judicial process requires an actual justiciable controversy as to which the complainant has a real interest in the ultimate adjudication because he or she has either suffered or is about to suffer an injury." People v. Superior Court, 126 Cal.Rptr.2d 793.



"Judicial power generally is the power to adjudicate upon the legal rights of persons and property, with reference to transactions or occurrences existing or already had and closed...The judicial function is to 'declare the law and define the rights of the parties under it.' Frasher v. Rader, 124 Cal. 133, 56 P. 797...'A determination of the rights of an individual under the existing laws' is an exercise of judicial power...An essential element of judicial power, distinguishing it from legislative power, is that it requires "the ascertainment of existing rights." People v. Bird, 300 P. 22, 26-27.

you mind made up yet?
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
Still waiting for case law that shows this is an affirmative defense to possession charges.

Pulling legal quotes out of context isn't going to do it. I am sure Justice Stevens also has a wonderful recipe for barbeque ribs. Doesn't have anything to do with this conversation either.

When you find examples where this crap has worked, you let us know.
 

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