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how to get rid of a car they will not write off... and get the right value

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vetteowner

Junior Member
Last week, I was stopped at a traffic light, and saw an old Volkswagen beetle driving towards me from behind at a distance of over 100 yards at what I’d estimate 50mph (in a 40mph zone). The driver was clearly not looking, probably texting or on the phone, and hit me full on in the back of the car. My car did a 180, and got forced into oncoming traffic where a chap that was coming in the other direction hit my car again. Allstate, the other cars insurers, told me today that they have admitted liability.

My car is a 2007 convertible corvette, so it’s rated to do more than 1G lateral around corners – I’ve seen it very close to 1G on the G-meter when I drive it (not on the road). When you do a very rapid lane transition (left/right to switch lanes in an emergency) and when you sling it around the corner it uses a number of computers to help the driver to push the car around at enhanced performance.

The repairshop has said it’ll cost $11k to “fix” the car, and I would say that it would cost them $11k to “bodge” the car, as it will not, to my mind, ever be in its pre-accident condition again – they have included a “set up frame” and “pull for sway” and “pull for mash” statement that to me means they intend to yank around on the frame until they bend it back – and they have mentioned that there is frame damage. If I drive it the way I could before the accident, I’m concerned that things could break during a high stress maneuver, or that the computer assist system could never give it the optimal behavior since the frame will never be symmetrical – it might be symmetrical in cosmetic terms, but once you stress metal that has been bent and pulled back into its original shape, it will not be symmetrical in the way that it behaves, something that is obviously essential when you push a sportscar – and I do. I am a trained driver with a 35 years accident free driving record.

How do I get the insurance company to pay me for the pre-accident cost of my car (value about $43k + tax/licensing)? I’m in California where there is no diminished value law – but the wholesaler tells me that the car is worth about $19k to him once it’s repaired (the corvette dealer won’t have it on their forecourt because it’s got frame damage and therefore they won’t certify it and therefore won’t sell it).

Obviously I have two issues – (1) I don’t want the car back because I’m afraid it’ll kill me as I don’t drive it like I’m on my way to church, and (2) the value of the car before the accident is something quite different from what it is now even if it is repaired. I'll never be able to sell it and get the right value for it - and I really don't want it back, as my driving depends on the solid behavior of that car.

Can I force the other insurance to buy the car (at the pre-accident replacement cost) ? Do I need to get a lawyer involved? Do I sue the other driver for dangerous driving? How do I get a new car for no more than the difference between the value of the car (41k or so at least) and a new car (around 68k) ?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
Frame straightening isn't "yanking", it's a low pull.

1g isn't going to rip apart any frame.
You do have the right to make sure the frame isn't still damaged as a result and the electronics work.

You don't have the right to make them total your car just because of your fears that it won't be the same.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
This is obviously a very high end car and this is a lot of money you are talking about. Normally I would tell you that you are out of luck and only entitled to the repair cost but since there are unusual circumstances, I would say talk to a lawyer. You will have to pay an hourly rate, property damage cases aren't taken on contingency, but since this is a large amount of money, it may be worth it. Have a consult with a couple of lawyers and see what they say.
 

Worried Uncle

Junior Member
Vetteowner,
I was in an accident back in March. I was rear-ended, my car was a 2003 model with very low miles. The other guys insurance was going to total it, and then decided they were going to fix it. I was like you and worried about the car being in it's "pre-accident" condition. I contacted my insurance, they took the claim back over, and within a few hours I received a phone call from my agent saying they were in fact totaling the car, I would be getting this much, and I had my check a few days later. Not sure if that could be an option for you, but it is something to think about. Good Luck!
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I’m concerned that things could break during a high stress maneuver, or that the computer assist system could never give it the optimal behavior since the frame will never be symmetrical – it might be symmetrical in cosmetic terms, but once you stress metal that has been bent and pulled back into its original shape, it will not be symmetrical in the way that it behaves, something that is obviously essential when you push a sportscar – and I do.



It is considered wholly acceptable to straighten a frame and consider it to be fully functional.

If you wanted your vehicle to be like a new car should it ever be damaged, I would suggest you carry a policy that replaces any damaged parts with new components. As it is, there is no requirement to repair your car, either by your insurance or by a person that hits you, beyond straitening your frame if that returns it to acceptable spec's. If you want insurance that covers repairs in that manner, it is up to you to purchase it.
 
I give up. I looked thru that whole post and didn't see it for 2 days, then of course, after being told CA, found it immediately. I tried, but I give up. I am signing off on trying to help. From now on, unless I have a legal question, I will not attempt to add. Good grief. Sorry.
 

vetteowner

Junior Member
more on the subject

I live in California - the UK thing might be because I lived there for almost 20 years.

Bluebook indicates that an "exact" replacement car would cost me around $47k inc taxes etc. The dealer that has the car cannot sell it as they cannot certify it because the car (now) has known frame damage. They checked with a wholesaler they use who says it's worth $19k to him once it's fixed as it has to go to the auction to be sold. This story isn't getting any better.

As indicated earlier - the problem is that I do not believe that the car can be put back to its pre-accident condition, and there are two things that really get me.

The first one is, that I don't want to drive it again - it is not unusual for me to see a near 1G lateral acceleration. I drive responsibly but fast, and I'm depending on the car behaving itself. Once you impact a car at 50mph with a 2000 lb hammer, and then give it another good slap in the same spot at 20 or 30mph with another 2000 lb hammer, you can pull on the frame all you like, but as a qualified engineer, I will tell you that the behavior of this car will not ever be symmetrical again. The stiffness differential between the left and right side of the car (it got hit on the rear right) will cause the car to behave differently from when it came from the factory, and therefore it will not ever be safe to drive it anywhere near its previous capabilities if for no other reason than that the computers have been programmed for symmetrical behavior and that they will do the wrong thing even during a rapid lane change (for say accident avoidance) - it could quite easily cause the car to be thrown into a spin.

The second thing is, that when I get to sell it (the moment after it comes back after it's been bodged back together) it most certainly will be extremely hard to sell - who wants a sports car with frame damage. I for one wouldn't even consider buying it.

Sounds like getting a lawyer involved, unfortunately, may be the only way to see if I can come out of it without it costing me a whole lot of money, and all that due to an 18 year old driver who was completely inattentive and most likely texting someone... this is more than a little frustrating.
 

cyjeff

Senior Member
When you purchase your next car, make sure you add coverage that will replace the parts with new.

Otherwise, you get the car repaired until the parts used or repaired meet the factory specifications.

I agree to a point. I had a friend with an original 1965 Cobra that his grandfather had bought as a toy.

By the time it got to him, it had 24K miles on it.... and was worth a fortune.

The little old lady in the Sonata t-boned him when he decided to drive it 5 miles to the store and back.

Dropped the value by 50-75%. And he didn't have the insurance, either.

Grown men can cry over twisted metal.
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
There is a new drivable airplane (Terrafugia) being developed by some MIT students. The selling price is expected to be $250,000. I can't wait to see the insurance claim when some 18 year old kid t-bones one of those.

Since it is an airplane, it will not be permitted to be flown again until an FAA authorized "Inspection Authority" signs it off.
 

Kiawah

Senior Member
As another approach, why don't you look around for a high end collision repair facility. CA has a lot of high end vehicles, and certainly there would be repair shops that have a stellar reputation, working on exotic high end performance cars. Get an estimate from them, and possibly the insurance company would pay that repair.

That way, you'd be comfortable that you can do your 'responsible' 1G's in a manner that you felt safe.


And yet another ego bustin option, have them price out a performance modification upgrade for you, that enables 2 g's at Mach .5 speed (or whatever the best performance criteria is). Then you'd have something really unique and even more valuable.
 
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cyjeff

Senior Member
As another approach, why don't you look around for a high end collision repair facility. CA has a lot of high end vehicles, and certainly there would be repair shops that have a stellar reputation, working on exotic high end performance cars. Get an estimate from them, and possibly the insurance company would pay that repair.

That way, you'd be comfortable that you can do your 'responsible' 1G's in a manner that you felt safe.
While that certainly may return the car to original, I doubt very much that the insurance will pay what will be an amount 3 to 4 times the originally offered amount.

Everyone does realize, of course, that 1G is normal gravity pressure at sea level.

In other words, sitting at your computer, you are experiencing 1G.

I would have thought our engineer friend would have known that.
 

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