vehicle title

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I have a question regarding vehicle title. Around 4 months ago, my brother agreed to buy a car from a work friend. He wanted to use the money from the sale (2k) to use on a down payment on another car. They agreed to it. My brother took out a loan from our father to pay the guy and he turned over the keys and said to give him a few days with the title. Advance to present day, this guy still has not given my brother the title to the car.

As far as details, there aren't many. It was a verbal agreement between the two of them so no kind of contract exists. Private sale, so nothing there as i've been told. It was paid with cash, so no kind of check/money order/cashier's check to fall back to as 'proof'. My brother has asked him repetitly (they work at the same job) for the title, but still hasn't gotten it. I worry that the guy might be scamming him and is holding the title for his own reasons, or maybe even doesn't have the title or cannot get it. I wanted to know what kind of actions can he take to get the title from this guy. Or to recover his money if he can't. I think he'd prefer to keep the car if he can force the title to himself some kind of way. But i want to know what he can or can't do to get this done.

about the only thing he can do is make a demand for the title or a rescission of the sale. If the seller refuses, your son can sue him in small claims court. Without anything in writing, he is fighting an uphill battle with little proof of the specifics.

Heh, my brother isn't the type i can call 'son' and get away with it without having to duck a punch.

Im curious though, is there any kind of criminal action that can be taken in this case, some kind of complaint that can be lodged with the police about this matter? I'll note the small claims court idea, since he's been demanding it for awhile. Unless you were talking about some other person besides the owner?

Maybe demanding it with a threat to go to court could be proactive...

whoops, sorry. For some reason I was thinking son.

Im curious though, is there any kind of criminal action that can be taken in this case, some kind of complaint that can be lodged with the police about this matter?

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Unless there is more to the story, the police will most likely simply consider this to be a civil matter.

Called my brother and this is the story i've gotten.

Apparently, they discussed this as far back as January of this year about buying and selling the car. Fortunately, my father gave my brother a check (not cash as i thought) to pay for the car and they have a copy of the cancelled check. They completed sale on February 9th.

Now this is the smarmy stuff. After giving up payment, the seller didn't give my brother his keys until some time later as that car was his main transportation. When my brother DID get the keys it was sometime in March. Between then and present day, as i said, he continued asking about the vehicle title. The seller initally said he couldn't find it and had lost it. My brother suggested just getting a copy from the title bureau and transfering it to him, then and there. They TRIED to do that but the title bureau tells the seller that he needs to talk with the people he financed the car through.

Leads to this side story...he, the seller, apparently bought the car off the showroom floor for about 4K (sounds cheap to me for a cadillac) and the way he spoke of it to my brother, it was as if he paid it all and had title in hand.

My brother isn't sure the seller has the title and the title bureau is telling the seller he needs to talk with the people he financed through. To me, it sounds like there's a lien and i don't think that's legal to sell a car when you still owe on it. Now, im REALLY fishing for some advice because this is starting to sound criminal, has all the makings of a scam, and this guy has already lied before.

They TRIED to do that but the title bureau tells the seller that he needs to talk with the people he financed the car through.

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yep, sounds like there is still a lien on the title.

it still will probably not be seen as criminal. Intent is generally a requirement to have committed such a crime and intent can be difficult to prove.

I would make one last demand. After that, your bro can call the police and explain the situation. I suspect they will tell him it is a civil matter. That brings him back to small claims court.

Well you're right to that regard. Spent the day talking with a couple of different departments and they're saying much of the same thing you're saying. Basically, it could be looked at as fraud or theft but with what i've been telling them, they really can't do much more than speculate. Criminal, as of this moment with what we've got, is not a recourse. The seller still owns the car and even though my brother's got it, that seller is still the boss.

One thing that i did find out. Someone has ripped the tags off the plates to the car. So now it's VERY much undrivable and this is becoming even more 'scammy'. When i mentioned this along with the rest of my story, there's still nothing that can be done at a criminal level. I imagine because it can't be proven that the seller did it, though it would make sense for him to do it. So no dice there.

Right at this moment, i'm looking for info through the small claims process because i don't have any faith that this seller is going to give the title up unless pressured or (i'm hoping im wrong) turn around and report that car as stolen and start a whole can of crap. I'm taking advice for my brother to get anything he can together to state and prove his story and talk with the police himself. If anything, he showed he at least tried that course when he goes to small claims; more than can be said for the seller.

Anyone have any recommendations now that we're pretty much heading straight to small claims?

I've been reading that small claims only deals with money. So based on what we've got, i'm not hopeful he'll get his wish to keep that car.

OK, maybe something good here. In trying to get the title info, i got onto Ohio's DMV website and found a place where they can to a online vehicle title inquiry. Punched in the car's VIN number and got this info. To me, this speaks that the car is in a lien and maybe could be used to build a case of fraud?

OWNER NAME: Private Owner
ISSUE DATE: 6/13/2003
TITLE TYPE: Replacement
LIENS 1: American General Financial Services, Inc
LIEN 1 CANCEL DATE: Nothing is written here...

And it also lists a history, i'm guessing the number of titles they have in their system. There's only one listing, the original, which is listed as "INACTIVE" and the reason stated here is "TRANSFERED TO REPLACEMENT". The owner of that replacement title is also listed as Private Owner.

So if i'm reading this correctly, the car is still in a lien and there were only 2 titles issued in this car's history according to this report. The seller's name is not listed anywhere in this report so i guess it might be safe to guess he never had the title at all, which could maybe lead to fraud?

The seller did not have the right to sell since he did not hold a clear title. Best case your brother gets his money back and gives back the car.

My brother gave the seller two more attempts to give him the title, but each time, the seller "was on the way to court (gee, what for?)" or "not at the house" at that time when they were supposed to meet.

BS.

Anyway, my brother is talking with a lawyer now, so its out of my hands. Last question. Small claims court can rule in his favor but does not assist him with helping him get the amount awarded, am i right?

markivan said:

Small claims court can rule in his favor but does not assist him with helping him get the amount awarded, am i right?

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That's correct. He would have to make arrangements to collect the judgment. FYI as an example, here in NYC the City Marshal collects judgments - the plaintiff would have to contract with a Marshal who would then do the necessary legwork to collect the judgment plus his fees.