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ticketed, but not given my ticket...

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phreedumb21

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.... I was given a ticket for not having proof of registration and insurance as well as having an expired license. I never recieved the physical copies from the officer so i don't have my court dates or anything like that.... what is the best way to get this info?
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.... I was given a ticket for not having proof of registration and insurance as well as having an expired license. I never recieved the physical copies from the officer so i don't have my court dates or anything like that.... what is the best way to get this info?
You can contact the issuing agency and see if they can provide you a copy. Or, give it a few weeks and check with the courts.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Well, they have to serve you properly ... they cannot now just mail you a copy of the ticket & consider that proper service.
Can you cite the rule/law/code/statute that says they cannot just mail him a copy of the ticket? Or cite the code that defines what "proper service" for a traffic citation?

How would you plead guilty/not guilty normally? In reality, you have no idea what you are being charged with .... a dismissal due to improper service is what you want but you will need the ticket # in all likelihood. Have a friend get this information via FOIA request to the police who gave you the ticket. Ask to review all tickets issued during the day you got it. Then have your friend write down the ticket # & call the clerk and say "hey, I just found out a ticket # that I was served on, I have no idea what all information is included on the ticket ...I would like to file for a dismissal in a pre-trial hearing" ... maybe the clerk help you out.
Do you know how long an FOIA request can take to get fulfilled? I'll give you a hint... By the time it gets filled, the court appearance would have come and gone and a failure to appear would have been added on top of the original citation!

phreedumb21, in addition to the information CdwJava has provided, you can also wait for a courtesy letter from the court or you may even try waiting (approximately 3 weeks) then going to your county court website and see if you can search for the citation by using your driver's license # and DOB...
 
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FOIA = 7 days **************..... and the service question...I dont have a law or case law citation for that ... maybe others can look it up & let us know. Simple ordinary mail, I am 1000% certain, is not OK ... my professional opinion ..... I like your question though as I like to make cites if I can :) -- I would think that if service is not done road-side then the standard civil filing service requirements would be a default, as a best case senario for the state.
If you don't know, then why guess? All of these assumptions are incorrect, despite your 1000% certainty.

In this particular case, nobody has any obligation to serve anything. By mail or otherwise.

If phreedum signed the ticket, and the police officer forgot to hand him/her a copy, then phreedum should do exactly what CdwJava and I_Got_Banned advised - find out where and when to appear in court.

If phreedum follows your advice and waits for "service" of something, then he will violating his promise to appear, and will be in all kinds of trouble.

Anyway, in the rare cases where something needs to be "served" on you (not in this case) for traffic court, regular mail is allowed in California.
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Since you are working for the state, are you a state troll trying to get people to plead guilty?
I do not believe Steven works for the state.

You certainly dont think that the state has to serve you with a ticket for it to be valid. Simply because you write a ticket does not make it a valid complaint...in this case it was not served. Are you saying it was?
If the officer turns in HIS copy, the court is going to assume that the OP got his. In which case if the OP does not show in court, a warrant for his arrest could be issued as a result. Is it worth taking that chance?

Also, a citation CAn be issued by mail. The only difference between an unsigned citation and a signed citation is that the defendant cannot be charged for failing to appear if he did not sign the citation. In this case, the defendant signed it ... the officer has a signed copy in his possession ... unless the officer realizes he has the defendant's copy, the officer's copy will go to the court with the defendant's signature and the defendant will have to deal with it at some point in time.

To avoid getting blindsided with an arrest warrant, the best solution is to either call the agency that issued the citation, or, wait for about two weeks and check with the traffic division of the local superior court and asking them about the citation.

If the OP wants to play Russian roulette, he is free to do so.

Assuming the officer discovers he has the defendant's copy and mails it to him, there is still the small problem of the SIGNED PROMISE TO APPEAR. He can pretend he never got it all he wants but the presumption will generally be that the officer presented the defendant with his copy.

According to you no service has to be done at all ... this is complete gibberish. If I was the OP, I would ignore any cop giving advice on this board or at least double check facts that they claim are facts.
Uh ... we mail citations to people all the time ater collision investigations. The citation is not signed, and the person cannot be held accountable for failing to appear in court. However, such a failure will often result in a warrant or a summons so that it becomes more official.

The OP here needs to ask himself, "Do I feel lucky?" And, then, just how much of his freedom is he willing to risk?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
The reality is that the driver says he did not get the citation - or believes he did not get the citation. The officer may have thought he gave it to him. If the officer finds the defendant's signed copy he can mail it to him, or, very slim chance, simply pretend he never saw it and file HIS copy anyway. In either case, the OP will be held accountable for his appearance or failure to do so.

How likely is it that a judge will buy the claim that the defendant never got a copy of the ticket if the officer believes he did give it to him? And is it worth going to jail just to find out?

Yes, one can wait to try and make a CPRA request, but by the time that gets completed the court date just might have come and gone ... oops. Best to just call the police or the court and find out rather than guessing, hoping, and wondering if it can all be straightened out after the damage is done later on.

And remember, the OP/defendant IS aware of the complaint! He was there! He signed the ticket! He just does not believe he got the physical copy of it. It's sort of like leaving your court paperwork on the bench at the court. The fact that you do not have your copy does not relieve you from the requirement of fulfilling the conditions of the sentence on that paperwork. Once our OP/defendant signed it, he made that promise to appear and the filing of the citation with the court serves as the complaint and his acknowledgment that he would take care of the matter on or before the assigned court date
 
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I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
thanks -- comments added - v. strange situation
Not strange at all... The code section I asked you to cite earlier would be vehicle Code section 40513... Here is a link: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40513.htm


V C Section 40513 Filing of Complaint
(a) Whenever written notice to appear has been prepared, delivered, and filed with the court, an exact and legible duplicate copy of the notice when filed with the magistrate, in lieu of a verified complaint, shall constitute a complaint to which the defendant may plead "guilty" or "nolo contendere."

If, however, the defendant violates his or her promise to appear in court or does not deposit lawful bail, or pleads other than "guilty" or "nolo contendere" to the offense charged, a complaint shall be filed that shall conform to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 948) of Title 5 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, which shall be deemed to be an original complaint, and thereafter proceedings shall be had as provided by law, except that a defendant may, by an agreement in writing, subscribed by him or her and filed with the court, waive the filing of a verified complaint and elect that the prosecution may proceed upon a written notice to appear.

(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), whenever the written notice to appear has been prepared on a form approved by the Judicial Council, an exact and legible duplicate copy of the notice when filed with the magistrate shall constitute a complaint to which the defendant may enter a plea and, if the notice to appear is verified, upon which a warrant may be issued. If the notice to appear is not verified, the defendant may, at the time of arraignment, request that a verified complaint be filed. In the case of an infraction violation in which the defendant is a minor, the defendant may enter a plea at the arraignment upon a written notice to appear. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, in the case of an infraction violation, no consent of the minor is required prior to conducting the hearing upon a written notice to appear.

The case law citation that you need to look up to understand what 40513 means is People v. Barron, 37 Cal. App. 4th Supp. 1 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17439761867231415500&q=People+v+Barron+(1995)+37+CA4th+Supp+1&hl=en&as_sdt=2004

I will first cite the opening paragraph from that opinion to give you an idea... well, read it for yourself:

In this case, a case where the facts border on the ridiculous, we address the recurring legal issue of whether the trial court had jurisdiction to proceed where, despite appellant's request, no verified complaint was filed pursuant to Vehicle Code section 40513, subdivision (a).

For the record, I will post two more paragraphs from that opinion:

Thus, we read Vehicle Code section 40513, subdivision (b) to mean where, as here, the written notice to appear has been prepared on a form approved by the Judicial Council, an exact and legible duplicate copy of the notice when filed with the magistrate shall constitute a complaint to which the defendant may enter a plea, i.e., a plea of guilty, a plea of nolo contendere, or a plea of not guilty.

We are also mindful of the decision in Heldt v. Municipal Court (1985) 163 Cal. App.3d 532 [209 Cal. Rptr. 579], which examined the virtually identical Penal Code section 853.9. In Heldt, the court held that under Penal Code section 853.9, a notice to appear prepared on a form approved by the Judicial Council may be filed in lieu of a formal verified complaint even where the defendant enters a not guilty plea and the case proceeds to trial. The same analysis can be applied here.​
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
I think our friend (SuperLitigator, et. al.) is back using yet another name... He keeps coming back after getting tossed.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Rule 4.103. Notice to appear forms
(a) Traffic offenses
A notice to appear that is issued for any violation of the Vehicle Code other than a felony or for a violation of an ordinance of a city or county relating to traffic offenses must be prepared and filed with the court on Automated Traffic Enforcement System Notice to Appear (form TR-115) or Traffic/Nontraffic Notice to Appear (form TR-130), and must comply with the requirements in the current version of the Judicial Council’s instructions, Notice to Appear and Related Forms (form TR-INST).
(Subd (a) amended effective January 1, 2007.)
.....

Standard 4.40. Traffic infraction procedures
To insure the prompt and efficient disposition of traffic infraction cases, each court should:
(1) Authorize the clerk, within limits set by the court, to grant defendants
extensions of time for the posting of bail and payment of fines.
37
(2) Authorize the clerk or other court official to accept offers of proof of
correction or compliance in accordance with the bail schedule without the
necessity of a court appearance.

Standard 4.40 amended and renumbered effective January 1, 2007; adopted as sec. 10.5 effective July 1, 1977.

Standard 4.41. Courtesy notice—traffic procedures

(a) Mailed courtesy notice
Each court should promptly mail a “courtesy notice” to the address shown on the Notice to Appear. The date of mailing should allow for the plea-by-mail option in infraction cases.
(Subd (a) amended and lettered effective January 1, 2007; adopted as part of unlettered subdivision effective January 1, 1987.)
(b) Minimum information in courtesy notice
In addition to information obtained from the Notice to Appear, the courtesy notice should contain at least the following information:
(1) An appearance date, time, and location;
(2) Whether a court appearance is mandatory or optional;
(3) The total bail amount if forfeitable;
(4) The procedure required for remitting bail;
(5) The plea-by-mail option in infraction cases and the number of appearances required where trial is requested;
(6) The consequences of failure to appear; and
(7) A telephone number to call for additional information.
(Subd (b) amended and lettered effective January 1, 2007; adopted as part of unlettered
subdivision effective January 1, 1987.)
(c) Additional information in courtesy notice
Courts should provide additional information in the courtesy notice, as appropriate,
including the following:
38
(1) Informal trial, trial by declaration, traffic violators’ school, and telephone
scheduling options; and
(2) Correction requirements and procedures.
(Subd (c) amended and lettered effective January 1, 2007; adopted as part of unlettered
subdivision effective January 1, 1987.)
Standard 4.41 amended and renumbered effective January 1, 2007; adopted as sec. 10.6 effective
January 1, 1987.
Where in ANY of ^that^ does it say "served" or even "delivered"???

I also re-looked at the court rules ... certainly appears as if the ticket must be served ...
"appears" ain't gonna cut it. Either post the court rule that says "must be served" or cut out this nonsense!

Fact is, you posted the relevant court rule above... Rule 4.103(a)... and "served" does not "appear" to be part of it!!!

"delivered" is the operable term in your cite
Read 40513(b)... "delivered" is not there!!!

and "that is issued" is the phrase in rule 4.103.
"issued" does not necessarily mean "served"... No matter how bad you want it to be.

Looks like the driver may get a notice too, according to the rule 4.41....
Whether he gets the 'courtesy notice" or not, the citation is still valid!

so once gotten, I would file a motion to dismiss due to failure to serve the ticket.
And once the judge stops laughing, then what???

This is a criminal charge as well so the OP should bear this in mind.
That is about the only correct statement you've made here!!! Good job :D

The Barron law should never have been considered to be a precedent setting opinion due to the pro se nature of the litigant.
Not even funny...

The appellate court has this option to stamp an opinion in this manner.
Whatever that is supposed to mean :rolleyes:
 

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