• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Death of a 13 yr old girl

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

ashquin

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? kansas

Dec. 9th was the worst day of my life. That was thenight that found my daughter lying on her closet floor with everything in her closet on top of her. We immediatly pulled her out of her closet started cpr and called the police. Almost immediantly after finding out thatI was a chronic pain patient, they started speculating drug overdose. Even though I knew my daughter was not that type f girl, very smart, cheerleader, very popular...the captain of the police department called me the next morning and told me that they found traces of oxycontin in her system. I was devastated, but still not convinced. Suer she had fluid on her lungs, but I waited 3 monthes for the toxicology to come back and it was found to be drug free. Now the coroners, and investigators are telling me that my daughter hung herself. That me or my husband cut her down and we know it. I was flabbergasted. My hand raised to God, my daughter had no rope, belt, scarf around her neck. She had no ligurture marks around her neck. Her hyoid bone was not broken. The autopsy reportsthatshe had a knot on top of head head that was not investigated. The autopsy report also claims that my daughter had tatoos and male genetelia. My daughter was not depicted as the popular 13 yr old cheerleader, instaed this paper says that my daughter was a tattooed tranny. Both the cornrer and investigators have been very indignant with me. Investigators telling me that I'm harrassing their officers, accussing me of wrong doing, such as coruupting thecrime scene, without even giving me a chance to take a polygraph, saying that it is not woth the resources. The DA's report says that it is likely that this case was NOT a suicide, but thecoroner will not change the findings on her death certificate. Another forensic pathologist says that the autopsy report was done so sloppy that he can't make heads or tails of it. Someone please help!
 


justalayman

Senior Member
there is one thing not mentioned that points to death by strangulation much stronger than any item mentioned; petechiae. While those you mentioned would likely be present if she hung herself with the intent to commit suicide, they may not if the strangulation was (for lack of a better term) gentle.

If the ligature is removed shortly after death and there was little force applied, there may be no ligature marks at all. The hyoid bone being intact could also be possible with a strangulation with little force used. A fracture is present in approx 1/3 of strangulations so it being intact by no means rules out strangulation.

and yes, I read where you say there was nothing around her neck. There could be explanations for that but without reviewing the crime scene, it is impossible to determine of those are applicable.

From what I have read, neither ligature marks or a hyoid fracture would be typical in death when the intent was autoerotic asphyxiation as one gently applies their weight to the ligature and if they were found relatively soon after death and the ligature removed, there would be neither ligature marks or a fractured hyoid bone.

Not saying that is what was going on but it would explain many things here.

The autopsy report also claims that my daughter had tatoos and male genetelia.
is there any truth to those statements?

If not, are you sure there hasn't been some mix up and your daughters name attached to some other report?


found my daughter lying on her closet floor with everything in her closet on top of her.
why was everything on top of her? Does this include the clothes rod?

accussing me of wrong doing, such as coruupting thecrime scene
accusing? It's likely you did. You moving anything corrupted the crime scene. You admit to doing such. Did they say it was intentional or simply that you had corrupted the scene.




If you disagree with the coroners report, you may be relegated to paying to have a secondary report performed to dispute the original report.
 

ashquin

Junior Member
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my thread. I live in a very old victorian house.
1. The pole was already broken, it could handle about 60-80 pounds of clothings, but it kept slipping down. The bar has a very thick circumferance and very heavy. My daughter weighed 106 poundsit would not have held her weight. Plus, she was tall, she would have haqd to lift her legs, or slowly hung herself on her knees. No bruises on the knees, but a great big bruise in the middle of her forehead, visibilbe after death, so visible, they used extra makeup.
2. Not only was everything laying on top of her, she was lying on top of everything on her closet floor. My daughter kept a very busy schedule, sometime she went weeks without cleaning her room. She had baskets of shoes , a woodknock shelf, small boxes, bunch of bull....all in her closet.
3. We were told the next day that there was NO trama to the body.Big ass mystery...had to wait on tox.
4. Been changing my daughter since birth, checked her cold hard body myself for any knicks cuts or bruises, she had an open casket funeral, even make artist said only bruise was the one on her head that is mysteriously not mentioned in the autopsy report.
5. The investigators and coroner became very indignant with me after the tox results came back clean. All of the sudden, she hung herself. Doesn't pass the smell test. When I have invetigators telling me that bruise can disappear after death, they must think I'm an uneducated fool. I called them out on it! And for them to say that we took something off her neck without any proof or evidence, then refuse to do a polygrath, when they do poly's for a lot less. I would call that ridiculous.
6. Not to mention that my daughter was not suicidal and believe suicide is a mortal sin and had plans for the next day.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
not being a smart as* but you didn't answer the question about the gender or tattoos.

what about the petechiae? That is a very good indicator of strangulation. It typically is present in any strangulation.

as to her height and all: again, not being a smart a, accusing, or implying this is the truth but in an auto-erotic situation, the person would intentionally either have to either lift their legs or use a chair or such so they could stand up after they, well, when they were done. They also can hold the ligature around their neck so if they do lapse into unconsciousness, they would release the ligature and fall, hopefully regaining consciousness.

IF your daughter was doing this, is it possible the rod fell and hit her in the forehead?

Or even simply passed out and fell, hitting her forehead on the floor?

If that was the cause of death, (and yes, it would be odd it wasn't on the autopsy), a second autopsy would be the only way to determine if there was damage that could have resulted in death. Not sure about how well such evidence would survive over the period of a year. You would have to speak with a specialist concerning that.

as to a polygraph; what do you expect to come of that. They are not allowed in court for a reason and that is; they are not dependable.

sorry to be focusing on the sexual situation but with what you have presented, that seems to fit. Obviously, you were there so the scene could be completely different than what I am picturing from your description.

so, short of the second autopsy possibility, I simply do not see anything you can do about the situation.

one last thing:

6. Not to mention that my daughter was not suicidal and believe suicide is a mortal sin and had plans for the next day.
I have known a couple people that did commit suicide and a few that tried. Invariably, many people say: wow, I didn't realize they were having problems that would cause them to do that.

While there are often signs, many of them are not seen as such except in retrospect. Sometimes the signs just aren't there.

It may be that you will simply have to accept what you know in your heart to be the truth and let this go. Unless there is a real purpose to this, all it will accomplish is cause you to not be able to move on with life.
 

ashquin

Junior Member
AsI said, I have been changing my daughters diaper since birth, and looked at her cold hard body after death, I can tell you were the incision marks were. There was no penis. The tattoo, was a pen marking. I think were are coming from different cultural backgrounds, I can almost guarantee this was no sexual erotica death. And the way everyone acted after the tox report is like everyone was running to cover their ass. I don't disagree with the cause of death by aspxysiation. I know she did not do this to herself. With her door wide open while her little brothers are running around right before dinner. I believe she was cleaning her closet when that damn bar fell again, landing on the top of the head leaving the knot, she hit her forehead on the floor, she was in a backworks l shape as if she was trying to catch herself.

As far as the poly goes, if you accuse someone of taking something off of someones neck and hiding the evidence, as an officer, wouldn't you want to know exactly what happened in my home? So, it's not admissible in court but if I tok a poly and failed, would they not use that against me and use it as a tool to continue investigations?

This was a girl that loved life, lite up a room when she walked into it, one of the most popular girls in school and has been that way since kindergarten. At 2 she said she would become a cheerleader and took dance classes and worked towards her dream until she fulfilled it. Future CIA agent, still looking up military schools up until a week before her death. Defender of the innocence, fought many of fight not f her own and hadn't met her match till the day death tok her. Not a case of suicide.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
You are free to pay for a second autopsy, of course.

If you don't disagree with the CoD being asphyxiation - how in your mind did it happen?

You also mention she was looking up military schools a week up to her death - what happened during that final week?

What changed?
 

ashquin

Junior Member
I do agree with the COD, I just don't believe it was suicide. With the wounds on her head, the positin she was in, the 60-80 pounds of clothes on top of her and all the junk she was lying on top of, I'm sure she smothered to death. I just know it was not a suicide, she stopped looking up military school because she was not on the cmputer as often that week, had big game coming up, and just came off a week of birthday parties. Just a very active girl, not one to spend all her time on the computer. She wore a purity ring and I have her diary that detailed her activities up until a cuple of days before death, she was not depressed.

Yes, I could get a second autopsy, but it's gonna cost me about $5000. Couldn't a judge just order the certificate changed?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Couldn't a judge just order the certificate changed?
How? The coroner is who makes the determination, not the judge. The judge does not have the medical expertise to dispute the coroners statement. Only another ME's testimony could allow the change.
 

ashquin

Junior Member
The DA had a separate investigation that says that they highly doubt that this was a suicide/suicide can not be proven.

How can they say absolutely no trama on day one, then 3 monthes later after the body is buried they call suicide, especially without any ligurture marks or evidence of a hanging?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
ashquin;2660305]The DA had a separate investigation that says that they highly doubt that this was a suicide/suicide can not be proven.
the DA doesn't sign the autopsy report, the ME does. Until it is the other way around, it is the ME that is putting his reputation on the line.


How can they say absolutely no trama on day one, then 3 monthes later after the body is buried they call suicide, especially without any ligurture marks or evidence of a hanging?
as I said; ligature marks are not always present. That is not proof it wasn't suicide. It tends to support the theory but it is not definitive.

and still; what is the point of all of this?

I cannot find where you actually posted the cause of death. What was the specific cause listed?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
The DA had a separate investigation that says that they highly doubt that this was a suicide/suicide can not be proven.

How can they say absolutely no trama on day one, then 3 monthes later after the body is buried they call suicide, especially without any ligurture marks or evidence of a hanging?



For one thing, bruising and internal trauma may not be evident on day one.

So - what was the DA's conclusion?

I'm getting the distinct impression that there is far more to this story. The unexpected death of a child, where the DA suspects that suicide is not likely......we're missing details here because otherwise this reads a little too much like a L&O episode.
 

ashquin

Junior Member
Precieved stigma! I'm sure my daughter is rolling in her grave, to have this lie put upon her name. To have her parents accussed of wrong doing, without being given a chance to clear themselves. I'm not a parent in denial. If I had actually cut my daughter down or taken a rope off her neck would I be here with you on this forum? Calling every and anybody that will listen. I did not have any insurance on my daughter, so there is no monetary motive. For a 13 year old girl, she had the faith of God that I've never witnessed in a child, a teen at that. We've had talks about suicide, drugs, anything everything, every subject that come up on tv, we were best friends. I have been a homemaker since she started first grade. I know my daughter.
 

ashquin

Junior Member
Cme to find out ME did not do the autopsy, he let one of his flunky students do it. I found this out through the Da, the coroner tried to make it seem to me that he did the autopsy himself, Not to mention the ME is about 75-80 years old. They did the autopsy the next morning, 12 hours after death. Other bruises show up, but ligurture marks do not, I just can't buy that. Remember, the captain of plice told me that they found traces of oxycontin in her system at the hospital. Which turned out to be bs. Starting to feel like a bad episode of L&O. It's starting to feel like a case of class warfare.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top